International Trade Committee on Feb. 12th, 2026

[The Chair (Hon. Judy A. Sgro (Humber River—Black Creek, Lib.)), Liberal, Judy Sgro]

I call the meeting to order.

This is meeting 23 of the Standing Committee on International Trade.

Welcome to all the members and to the guests who are with us today.

Pursuant to the order of reference of Monday, February 2, 2026, the committee is resuming its study on Bill C-18, an act to implement the comprehensive economic partnership agreement between Canada and Indonesia.

We have with us, from the Canada Border Services Agency, Meda-Cristina Horacsek, executive director, commercial and trade policy.

From the Department of Finance, we have Cara Xie, analyst/economist, international trade policy division.

From the Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development we have Aaron Fowler, associate assistant deputy minister, international trade branch, and chief trade negotiator; and Raahool Watchmaker, deputy director and senior counsel, trade remedies law, trade law bureau; and Lewis McCall.

From the Department of Industry, we have Mehmet Karman, senior policy analyst, foreign investment review and economic security branch.

Thank you all for being with us today.

This is a reminder to committee members that officials are present to answer questions that any of you may have in regard to the clause-by-clause consideration. Since we just did Bill C-13 last week, I am not going to read out all the instructions.

I will read out each clause successively. You have a number on each clause. In addition to BQ-1, as an example, you also have another eight-digit number. I will reference that number to ensure that we are all referring to the same amendment being proposed. The amendments are going to appear as they were given to us.

They have been properly drafted in the legal sense, so amendments must also be procedurally admissible. I will rule amendments inadmissible if they go against the principle of the bill or go beyond the scope of the bill, both of which were adopted by the House when it agreed to the bill at second reading.

Pursuant to Standing Order 75(1), consideration of clause 1, which is the short title, is postponed.

I therefore will call clause 2. There are no amendments proposed to clauses 2 to 15. Is there unanimous consent to group them for the vote?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC]

Madam Chair, I'm sorry to jump in like this, but you started a bit too quickly. First, I would like to ask the witnesses, who are experts, and especially counsel for the department—

What's going on? Do you have access to the interpretation?

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Can you start that again?

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC]

You went a bit too quickly, Madam Chair.

Given the legal language used to describe many things and the fact that not all of us are experts in this field, I would like to ask the experts, in particular counsel, whether they can tell me in advance the specific clauses that establish or initiate the investor‑state dispute settlement mechanism.

[Raahool Watchmaker, Deputy Director and Senior Counsel, Trade Remedies Law, Trade Law Bureau, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development]

Madam Chair, I'm not certain I understood the question.

Paragraphs of the bill, clauses that are being proposed for amendment....

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Could you elaborate, Mr. Savard-Tremblay?

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC]

I don't know how to explain this further. I would like to know in advance the specific aspects or clauses of the bill that establish the investor‑state dispute settlement mechanism and that initiate its implementation in Canada.

[Raahool Watchmaker]

I understood the question to be about the investor-state dispute mechanism.

The clauses of the bill that activate the investor-state mechanism for disputes under the Commercial Arbitration Act are the amendments in the bill that are specific to that act.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC]

Which clauses of the bill are involved?

[Raahool Watchmaker]

I believe it is clause 26.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC]

So it's clause 26 of the bill, which concerns the Commercial Arbitration Act. Is that right?

[Raahool Watchmaker]

Yes. That is the only clause in the bill that is related to ISDS.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC]

Okay. Clause 27, which concerns the Canadian International Trade Tribunal, covers something else. It must be the state‑to‑state settlement. Is that right?

[Raahool Watchmaker]

No. The clause that deals with the Canadian International Trade Tribunal principally implements the provisions in the agreement that deal with things like bilateral safeguards, safeguard exceptions and such. Those are matters that are normally considered by the Canadian International Trade Tribunal.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC]

Thank you.

We can continue, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

(Clauses 2 to 15 agreed to)

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Monsieur Savard-Tremblay, we have a new clause presented by you, clause 15.1. Just so we're very clear, I'm referring to BQ-1. In the top left corner of your page, you have the number 13898243. Let's make sure we're all on the same page. There were some changes to it.

Would you like to move that amendment, Monsieur Savard-Tremblay?

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC]

Yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Do you wish to speak to it at this time?

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC]

I'm strongly in favour of trade, as are all the people who came to speak to us. However, I'm moving this amendment in light of considerations regarding the state of the environment and human rights in Indonesia, particularly in relation to a specific industry. It's serious enough that Switzerland and the European Union appointed a special group to monitor this industry. I think that it would be a good idea to appoint a group of experts who could monitor these issues and report back to us.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

In reference to that particular amendment, Bill C-18 seeks to implement the Canada-Indonesia comprehensive economic partnership agreement by approving and enacting this agreement. The amendment attempts to force the minister to appoint an expert group responsible for the evaluation of compliance of Indonesian companies operating oil palm plantations whose products are imported into Canada.

As per House of Commons Procedure and Practice:

Since an amendment may not infringe upon the financial initiative of the Crown, it is inadmissible if it imposes a charge on the public treasury, or if it extends the objects or purposes or relaxes the conditions and qualifications.

I therefore am ruling that amendment inadmissible, sir.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC]

I must challenge your ruling, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

I have ruled the Bloc motion inadmissible. Shall the ruling of the chair be sustained?

(Ruling of the chair overturned: nays 5; yeas 4)

Thank you all very much.

For the next step, do you want to speak further to the amendment, or do we call for a vote?

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC]

I believe that the amendment covers everything and that no further explanation is required.