Evidence of meeting #33 for National Defence in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was families.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
4:30 p.m.
Gen Rick Hillier
Oh, sorry. My God, I thought you were giving the time to me.
4:30 p.m.
Voices
Oh, oh!
4:30 p.m.
Gen Rick Hillier
All right.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
Anthony Rota Liberal Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON
Thank you for granting me these few minutes, Mr. Chair. I hope you don't live to regret it.
4:30 p.m.
Voices
Oh, oh!
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
Anthony Rota Liberal Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON
Thank you for the service you've given over the years. The respect you've received from your troops is outstanding. The fact that it's stellar really is apparent when you speak to the men and women of the armed forces.
I just want to make a few comments on how it has been clear, right throughout the military forces, that an illness is an illness, regardless of whether it's physical or mental. That's something that starts at the top. It's not just something that appears. There's been a real effort there. You've been building a base as far as medical treatment goes with the Rx2000.
There is one area I'd like to concentrate on, though. It seems that a lot of the medical treatment and a lot of the medical resources are concentrated in large urban areas, or areas where you have major bases. I know you're from Newfoundland, and I'm from rural Ontario; we probably have a lot more in common with each other than with a lot of the big cities out there, so I'm sure you'll appreciate this.
What I'm hearing from a lot of the people who are coming before us is that it's almost like a two-tiered system. You touched on that earlier. It seems that if you're in one of the larger areas--Edmonton, for instance, or even Ottawa--you get first-class service. If you're in Petawawa or northern Ontario, or a rural area, it's almost like there's second-class service there. That bothers me, because a lot of my constituents who are in the forces are from rural settings, and they deserve the same level of service as everyone else. When they go back home, they don't always receive that.
From your level, where are you going, and what are you doing to change things and make sure that the level of service available in urban centres is available in rural centres?
4:35 p.m.
Gen Rick Hillier
Mr. Chair and sir, a whole variety of measures, many of which I've spoken to here. We've increased the number of medical specialists and the specialists we need in Petawawa. We've increased them in Gagetown, and we're going to increase them even more, despite all the massive challenges of being able to attract people to go there, civilians and/or military, truthfully.
We've started a program, as I mentioned earlier also, about specialists who live here in Ottawa, for example, consistently working in Petawawa, not to move there but to actually spend probably a majority of their time there on a consistent basis, to give that same level of care in Petawawa, increased care, as they would give here in Ottawa, and doing exactly the same thing, as I recall our discussion, from Halifax to Gagetown, for exactly those same reasons.
We are taking a whole variety of measures exactly along that line, because we are determined we're going to have one high standard of care, regardless of where you are as a soldier, sailor, airman or airwoman. That's our goal and that's what we're going ensure occurs.
There are challenges with it. You simply cannot attract people with the kinds of specialties with the kind of money they want.... If you're a very qualified psychiatrist with much experience in the field and much credibility, most of the time you want to ply your trade in downtown Toronto or Vancouver or elsewhere, and very few of those are willing to come permanently to a place like Petawawa, despite the great charms of Petawawa. So we come at it from a variety of other ways, and that's what we're working to do. Our absolute goal is one high standard health care system in the Canadian Forces that treats everybody with that same high standard.
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
Anthony Rota Liberal Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON
Do I have one minute? Very good.
We're talking about the major bases, and that's certainly one of the areas we're looking at. We're talking about Ottawa, Petawawa, Halifax, and Gagetown. But I'm talking about the individuals who come from a rural area, say in rural Ontario. They've gone through a lot of trauma, both physical and mental trauma. Now they're being forced to travel for four or five hours in order to get treatment. Some of them simply don't have the resources. How do we get around that?
We talked about a relationship with the provinces earlier. Is that something that seems to be somewhat of a solution?
4:35 p.m.
Gen Rick Hillier
I think it could be part of a solution, sir. One, if they're travelling to get treatment for something, an injury that they've sustained while they've been with us, then they're not going to be picking up the bill for that themselves. We're going to make sure we do it.
Two, part of the treatment is that we have to get them to where the expertise is at times or the capacity to treat.
Three, we also work with the civilian medical system in all those places to see if there are alternatives that can actually be used inside their home town or the region where they are. But the challenge remains--I don't dismiss it, I don't even minimize it--for folks who are out in these little isolated areas where perhaps the general practitioner level of health care is very good, but those specialties, when you're trying to treat specific injuries, particularly of the mind, are very different.
4:35 p.m.
Bloc
Claude Bachand Bloc Saint-Jean, QC
May I make a point of order?
It's not about the physical abuses in Afghanistan. I asked the question of the General about when he gave the order and what order was it, and I was asking if he could provide that order to the standing committee, and when it was done. Is it feasible to do that?
4:35 p.m.
Gen Rick Hillier
Sir, I reconfirmed my commander's intention and guidance this morning to General Gauthier, the commander in Afghanistan, the Vice-Chief of Defence Staff, and the deputy commander of CEFCOM, who are the last two guys who were in the room with me. And General Gauthier and the commander in Afghanistan were on the video teleconference with me and confirmed exactly the words I used to you.
We have all the authorities we need. We're there to help Afghans. If somebody's being seriously abused and we are a witness to it, we are not going to stand by and see that continue. I expect young men and young women to have their actions mirror the values they bring with them from Canada. We know they do. I simply want to make it absolutely clear; there is no ambiguity from this Chief of Defence Staff.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Rick Casson
Thank you, General.
General, we've kept you a little longer than we said we would, and I apologize for that. And I apologize for cutting you off a couple of times, but as chair of the committee I find if I'm strict on the time-keeping I have to do less refereeing, to use a hockey analogy, being a longstanding and suffering Leafs fan.
I want to wish you well, wherever your future endeavours take you.
I want to give you the last word. Take whatever time you need, and you don't have to stick to the subject at hand. The floor is yours, and when you're done, we're done.
4:40 p.m.
Gen Rick Hillier
Sir, I'd like to say two things, if I could. Please bear with me, if you don't mind.
One, after I retire on July 2, I'm going to have another career; I'm going to find something else to do. I want to contribute to our great country in some way, shape, or form. What I'm not going to do is perhaps most clear: I'm not going to become a political leader. I tell you this because I know most of you. I've had the opportunity and real privilege to work with you over these past years. I stand in admiration of you. We don't treat political leaders in our country very well at all; we don't hold them in great esteem, normally speaking. I just watch you in awe at what you put up with and what has been imposed on your families by your selection as political leaders in Canada.
So I salute you and say well done. We need political leaders. I am not going to be one of them; I'll just say that one more time.
Secondly, I'll close here by mentioning Colonel Grenier. He is a great officer. I mentioned what Jim Davis, the dad of young Paul Davis, said to me down in Bridgewater. What he actually said was this guy is doing an awesome job, and he's at the front of our team that relates to families. Jim Davis' concern was that now that I was leaving as Chief of Defence Staff—this was just a few days after I had made my announcement—Colonel Grenier wouldn't have the top cover, etc., to go off and do the things that he's been doing, etc. I said, make no mistake there, Jim. Lieutenant-General Walter Natynczyk is now the CDS-designate. He's going to take over on July 2. I have worked with that officer; I've known him since 1983 and have worked with him on multiple occasions. He wears his values on his sleeve. His actions articulate his values and his care, his compassion, and his concern for the men and women who serve in the air, land, and sea elements of the Canadian Forces, and for their families. They are first and foremost in his order of priorities.
What Colonel Grenier has been doing, with the support of a team like this, will certainly be brought to even greater levels and be reinforced in every way possible by Lieutenant-General Natynczyk when he becomes the Chief of Defence Staff. He's the best officer that I've had the privilege to work with in my life. I have to tell you, one of the things I am very confident about as I leave as Chief of Defence Staff is that I'm handing over to the right officer.
Thank you very much for your time here this afternoon. It's been a pleasure. Thank you.
4:40 p.m.
Some hon. members
Hear, hear!