Go ahead, yes.
Evidence of meeting #41 for National Defence in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was recruiting.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #41 for National Defence in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was recruiting.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:35 a.m.
MGen W. Semianiw
On the second one, we looked into this issue of what is going on between year zero and year three, particularly at the recruit school.
What happens is you walk into a recruiting centre...and remember, it is my team that actually approves the recruiting advertising. It comes from Dan himself, put together by public affairs. It ensures that we're connected.
What you'll see is...and in fact some of you are looking at it right now. We are evolving the recruiting campaign to move into the difficult-to-recruit stressed trades, so the two are connected.
So perhaps you saw that on TV. But remember, 40% of our folks today are being recruited online. It has nothing to do with actually seeing somebody face to face, which I could come back to here later on. It's a very fascinating topic. We have a virtual recruiting centre in North Bay that actually chats with people throughout the day throughout the country, then talks to them on the phone. Forty per cent of all the forms are filled in online. They walk into a recruiting centre, and then they do a very quick interview. So things are changing.
But you do that, and then you'll be told to report to Saint-Jean. We are victims of our own success. What we said was that we wanted to streamline and speed up the process of getting young men and women, and folks of any age, into Saint-Jean. We have a cohort there that we got in after 25 days. What we heard from many of them was, “Whoa, this a little bit too fast for me. I didn't think I'd be here that quickly.”
So the first issue, Monsieur le président, was an issue of culture shock. We spoke to many of the young folks, and folks leaving, and asked why they were leaving. It was about too much of a shock having left where they've come from.
Personally, I believe the social fabric is changing, of society. I see it with my kids, who want to kind of stay at home until they are 30.
9:35 a.m.
Voices
Oh, oh!
9:35 a.m.
MGen W. Semianiw
Hopefully my kids don't read the transcript here today.
But that's not just an anomaly. We are starting to see that more and more. When we ask what the issue is, we're told, “I'm really homesick. I really wish I could talk to Mom and Dad.”
The other issue was perhaps—we admit this—up front being a little bit too hard. What's led to the drop is that now when you arrive at the recruit school, you are met by the entire leadership team. You're not met in the middle of the night. You're met at the beginning of the day by the leadership team. They sit you down and they introduce themselves.
We have actually taken a very different approach, a very relational approach—I know people laugh when I say it publicly—where we start off by saying, “Hey, we love you, and we're really happy that you made this choice, and we want to train to retain you. We are not here to screen you out. We want to screen you in.”
So that starts off from the beginning. We have changed some of the processes. And what I did personally—the buck stops with me—I changed the day that you could leave the recruit school. Up until last April you could leave day one. So if the issue was an issue of culture shock, what he did find out was if you keep people to week five, in all likelihood many will stay. We took the theory and put it into play. Guess what? It worked.
So what we have found is the different way that we work and deal with the recruits, train to retain, in a number of different ways. If you get into the details I am sure you can understand what you've seen in movies and the like. I've kept them to week five. The attrition rate has dropped, over that cultural piece that they're really homesick.
The second thing we've done is we're now connecting with moms and dads to ensure that when you phone home to your parents and you say “they kicked me out of here”, when the truth really is that you left on your own accord, your parents know exactly what's going on.
We've put a program in place where you connect with your parents. We actually put it on the website. You can take a look at it. We are in the process of sending them packages, so they are more informed. We've realized the nature of that family unit has changed and everyone is involved in that decision.
But I have to tell you what's great. I'm passionate about this—I'm sure you can tell. On graduation day we have changed the program, where every week we start with a new platoon. We graduate the platoon. Those parents come and are so very proud of their kids, and so are the kids.
It's not just kids, actually; it's all ages.
9:40 a.m.
MGen W. Semianiw
It's great business for Saint-Jean,
especially for the Corporation du Fort Saint-Jean.
9:40 a.m.
Voices
Oh, oh!
9:40 a.m.
MGen W. Semianiw
In the end, it has worked with a different style and approach. We're keeping you around a little bit longer now.
If people do want to leave, and they're adamant, we'll let them go. We'll let them go. But the number has dropped dramatically by changing our approach, putting in some policies.
The other thing we have done is our new fitness program. We no longer do fitness testing in the recruiting centres. We took that out. The buck stops with me; I made that call about a year and a half ago. Now when you arrive at the recruit school, in the first week you take your fitness test. If you pass it, you carry on with your training. If you do not, we keep you around and make you fit. You get a personal trainer.
Now, there's structure here. You don't get to sleep in all day. We wake you up in the morning, we give you a personal trainer, and your swipe card allows you to eat only good food in the cafeteria. We put you in bed for an hour in the afternoon.
Remember, the objective here is to retain. We get people fit. Originally what I had put in place was to keep people around for 90 days. They're doing it in 30 days.
Last year, by making that little shift in approach, we added to the CF's overall expansion targets by 550 folks, just with that little fitness program. If we hadn't had that program in place last year, those 550 would have left.
We've only had one person--I'll answer the question now, because I know you're going to raise it--join the Canadian Forces in order to join the fitness program. He left at the end.
9:40 a.m.
Voices
Oh, oh!
9:40 a.m.
MGen W. Semianiw
But he was the only one.
I've gone down and visited three times now. I've gone quite a bit to Saint-Jean. I've visited and talked to those in that fitness company. There's a company structure to it. They come out of there, after 30 days, fit. Then they carry on with their training. And guess what? It works.
So we're doing a number of things to screen you in, not screen you out.
9:45 a.m.
MGen W. Semianiw
As I'm sure you're aware, committee members, we could talk for hours on this stuff. But I know we don't have hours, so I apologize.
9:45 a.m.
Conservative
9:45 a.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'd like to thank you all for coming.
It's very impressive what's happening today. I just go back to my own experience; we generally termed the recruiting and the training system as “chopper Charlie”. You can interpret that any way you want.
I have a few specific questions, and I may bounce around a little bit.
In exhibit D you show the goals for women, aboriginals, and visible minorities. Without getting into huge detail, how do you generally arrive at those goals?
9:45 a.m.
MGen W. Semianiw
I'll turn it over to Karol, who is driving that piece.
9:45 a.m.
Director General, Military Personnel, Department of National Defence
Mr. Chairman, the general model for determining representation goals in the federal public service and other areas of the economy that are federally regulated are determined by the labour department and the work availability estimates they have for those populations.
However, given that the military is not homogeneous in terms of its jobs--there's a wide variety of jobs, and they would like us to think in those terms--we have explained to them that joining the military is not like taking a job in corporation X or corporation Y. There's a whole lifestyle change that comes with it. Therefore, we've asked them to consider adjusting those workforce availability estimates on the basis of general interest in the population to join the military in the first place.
As a result of the work we do that...through third party survey organizations, they determined the baseline level of interest in military service. From that, we adjust the availability estimates to what's reasonable.
To give you an example, the workforce availability estimate for women is about 50% according to the labour department, but the proportion of women who are interested in joining the military for any period of time is much lower than that. That's why our goal for women is 19.5%.
9:45 a.m.
MGen W. Semianiw
On the other hand, remember, everything is open. It's very different from other militaries. Everything is open, including combat.
I was in Israel about a month and a half ago, looking at the ill and injured program they have in place. They have a very different approach. Every nation, based on its social views, has a different approach on how you employ everybody.
Ours is, as I'm sure you're aware, all open. We have a diversified force in Afghanistan.
9:45 a.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
General Semianiw, with respect to immigrants, other countries, the U.S. and France specifically, offer incentives for immigrants to join and serve and it counts as extra time towards achieving citizenship. Have we looked at that specifically? Are we open to looking at something like that?
9:45 a.m.
MGen W. Semianiw
I'll give you a quick answer and I'll let Karol give you the details.
We've looked at it all. When it comes to bonuses and incentives, our sense is that it will have little effect on the 19- to 24-year-old age group because it's not about money. Compensation benefits in the Canadian Forces are very good today. They are not the best, but they are very good. That's where it needs to be.
At the other end we already have some incentives in place. If you are a doctor and you want to come in, we will provide you with a financial incentive.
Again, I come back to not having a challenge in bringing folks in to the Canadian Forces; therefore, why would I need incentives?
9:45 a.m.
Director General, Military Personnel, Department of National Defence
There are two groups that I haven't mentioned already. With the aboriginal population, for example, where our goal is 2.8%, we have cultural orientation programs where they can try out the military. We have the Bold Eagle program that originated in Saskatchewan; it's western-based. There is Raven on the west coast. We have a new program at Borden. Then we have a separate aboriginal entry program that has the intention of bringing people into the forces. The others are cultural familiarization courses. They have the option of walking away at the end, but they do build leadership skills and so on.
With respect to visible minority populations, we have struggled with that. We have outreach programs and contacts with leaders from those communities to try to encourage service in the military but we have not been as successful.
Some of our serving visible minority members have the opinion that some of these groups are looking at higher-status occupations. Depending on where they come from, for many the military does not constitute a high-status occupation or line of work. It's our job to convince them it is a worthwhile and honourable career.
9:50 a.m.
MGen W. Semianiw
On the pay side, when you talk about benefits I don't think we want to be a place where it's all about money. I know in other countries it has become that. As Commodore MacKeigan will tell you, many of the recruits understand that very early on. The pay is actually very, very good. After five years in a specialist trade, you are making very good money.
I think not giving people everything right up front does a number of things. They have to wait for it. I remember that I had to live off orange crates and all that in my house. I'm not saying that's where it is today—that's the struggle I have with my children. But at the end of the day I think that financially it's pretty good in the forces. We don't need to go to benefits at this point in time.
9:50 a.m.
Conservative
9:50 a.m.
MGen W. Semianiw
Agreed. It is not a dissatisfier.
9:50 a.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
On what I'll call the Afghanistan factor—I have no idea whether we have looked at that—I've talked to a number of soldiers who said the reason they're joining is because of Afghanistan, and when they leave Afghanistan they're getting out.
How much of a factor is that?
9:50 a.m.
MGen W. Semianiw
Ah; great question. We got the data for that yesterday: it's not true.
Karol, you can jump in here on what we've found.
