National Defence Committee on March 21st, 2011

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

That is impossible because those credits have already been dealt with. It is done. Now, we really have to focus on supplementary estimates (C).

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Very well.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Add a minute back on, if you don't mind.

I'm not making a big deal of it. I'm just saying that's what causes problems. That's all. People need to be aware of that.

With respect to the topic we just talked about, Minister, notwithstanding where it was used or not used, that amount of money represents 0.75% of the original $8.1 million that went to Environment Canada. How many departments do you know of from your experience in government that can plan and do things and execute programs to that fine a tolerance? Frankly, I don't think 0.75% is much to comment on.

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

I know of very few. I'm not suggesting for a minute that $60,000 is not a lot of money. That's a lot of money to any working Canadian, to any Canadian. But to be able to predict to a nicety within a $60,000 price range, as you mentioned, is a very precise and demanding expectation. It would be like trying to land a jet airplane on a dime sitting on the runway--which you may have done.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

You can do that once.

I'll pass it to Mr. Braid.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Thank you.

Thank you, Minister and officials, for being here this afternoon.

I have a couple of questions pertaining to supplementary estimates (C), if you'll permit me.

First of all, Minister, as we know, Canada hosted both the G-8 and the G-20 summits last year. These were the largest and most extensive security events in Canadian history. As we know, G-8 and G-20 leaders and their rather sizable delegations were able to visit Canada to do business here and do business in a safe and secure environment. That was certainly no small task.

How much did the Department of National Defence contribute to the overall government effort to ensure that these events were secure?

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

That's a very good question, and I thank you. It gives me an opportunity to highlight what a lot of Canadians wouldn't have seen, and that is the work done by the Department of National Defence behind the scenes.

At many of the venues in Vancouver and also in Whistler, most Canadians, most athletes, and those participating in the training would not have known that there were literally thousands of Canadian Forces members working in concert with police, both municipal and RCMP, behind the scenes providing security, in many cases camping outdoors in the woods, participating in patrols on both skis and Ski-Doos, given the weather conditions at the time, and also doing a lot of marine patrols around Vancouver harbour along with the air patrols performed by CF-18s, refuellers, and other aircraft.

It really was a classic example of a whole-of-government effort in which the Department of National Defence had a supporting role for the police and the Department of Public Safety, which had the primary responsibility for security. There were a lot of lessons learned, a lot of new initiatives that have come about with respect to winter training, and I would even call it a reinvigoration or an awakening of the necessity to do more of this type of activity as it pertains to the Arctic.

So we've taken some of those lessons learned already. We participated just this past winter in a number of exercises with our Canadian Rangers north of 60 in a number of Arctic communities. We benefit exponentially from the experience of the rangers and the ranger program. We also have this capacity to work in concert with other departments--not just on the public safety side--in support of search and rescue, as we were speaking of earlier, and in support of the presentation of these large international events.

Just looking at a calendar, you would see that we literally rolled from the games in Vancouver, both the winter games and the paralympic games, right into the preparation and the execution of the G-8 and G-20 summit. That was again a multi-venued event that required a great deal of effort on the part of the Canadian Forces. There were thousands of them in a low-key, low-visibility role in support of police, and in most cases they were living outdoors, living in tents around the venues, working very much in concert to ensure the security of those participants and those world leaders who were there, and working very hard to see that they dissuaded anyone who wanted to cause harm to or to disrupt these important international events that were taking place in our country.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Minister, as well, in your presentation you mentioned important efforts of the Canadian government, of the Department of National Defence, to help combat human smuggling in Southeast Asia. Could you please elaborate on the funding that's allocated to do that and perhaps comment a little more on that important effort?

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

Sure, and thank you very much again for the question.

Human smuggling, as we all know, has been in the news a great deal lately and poses a significant challenge across a number of government departments. With respect to the funding in the supplementary estimates (C) that has been designated here, the amount of $422,000, which is a net employee benefit plan, and costs of $36,000 are being requested on behalf of the Communications Security Establishment Canada.

As you're aware, the details of specific CSEC operations are of a very sensitive and classified nature. We don't want to create a situation where we would be assisting any of Canada's adversaries by talking too openly about this, but this is a one-time request to cover year-end costs associated with enhancing their operational capacity; that is, monitoring certain communications to ensure we are protecting Canada's interests, and this is in keeping with that effort. These enhancements are very much about maintenance costs in support of our efforts specifically to deter human smuggling that could bring illegal migrants to our shores.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

Thank you, Mr. Braid, and thank you, Mr. Minister.

We'll now give the floor to the Honourable Bryon Wilfert from the Liberal Party.

[Bryon Wilfert, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, gentlemen, for coming.

Minister, on capital spending, it appears that we maybe overprogrammed some things and we're slowing down, which is creating a bit of a surplus that could be lost this year. My question to you is what happens if we don't shift this from vote 5 to vote 1?

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

Money that isn't spent or specifically allotted in this fiscal year goes back to the crown, so it's unused budget. We have a certain carry-over amount that we can take forward and use in the next fiscal year. But specific to your question, money that is beyond that carry-over amount goes back to the crown. It will have to.

[Bryon Wilfert, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Minister, my understanding is that we have about 12,000 in basic training and they need money to train and obviously for ammunition, etc. Are we able to cover that?

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

Absolutely.

[Bryon Wilfert, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Mr. Minister, I understand that on the civilian side DND has increased personnel by 5,000 individuals. That obviously is a concern, given the fact that we seem to be creating more ADMs, etc. Can you briefly explain to us the need for this creation, and is this taking away from those personnel in uniform, who obviously should be and I know are our first priority?

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

Well, Mr. Wilfert, you will know that the plan as outlined in the Canada First defence strategy is to grow the personnel of the Canadian Forces to 100,000: that is 70,000 regular force, 30,000 reservists. We're currently exceeding recruiting targets in both of the areas.

As a result of a shift in tempo in Afghanistan, we now have sufficient numbers of reservists, many of whom will be coming back, having participated in the mission in Afghanistan. So some of those individuals will be required either to go to a different status in the reserves or to join the regular force.

All this effort is being worked out to see that we strike the right balance; that is, to keep the pillars of both recruiting and building the personnel side in concert with our equipment and infrastructure capabilities--where they live, where they train, where their families are housed--and the readiness component.

With respect to growth on the civilian side, ADMs, as you've indicated, that is separate. That is a different budget. It doesn't reflect or negate the efforts we're making to build the size of those in uniform. And we are, as I said, on pace. In fact, we've actually been ahead of pace with respect to growing the size of the personnel of the Canadian Forces.

[Bryon Wilfert, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

I appreciate that, Mr. Minister.

In 1998 we did the quality-of-life study. One of my major concerns is that we need to, as a committee, revisit the issue of quality of life, making sure we don't cut back on any benefits for our personnel. We need to make sure that after ten years we really review putting the money where it needs to be, and that is in the quality of life for our service personnel.

I'm just wondering if you could comment on that, as hopefully we will embark on that review at some point.

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

Mr. Wilfert, I would encourage any and all input from this honourable committee in any studies you undertake. I agree with you that the priority has to remain the men and women in uniform, and the services provided to them.

I was proud this weekend to announce another of the joint personnel support units, which I know you're familiar with. They are really designed to bring together all of the various support services and programs available to the men and women in uniform, veterans, and their families, and make them more accessible, more readily available, and more easily understood, and to also increase things such as mental health care professionals. We still have a goal to double the number of mental health care professionals. This is particularly challenging, as you can appreciate, in certain remote areas where we have smaller Canadian Forces stations and bases. We want to try to have a standard of care that is available to all.

We've made significant investments in the care and treatment of grievously injured veterans as well. This remains a focal point of the Department of Veterans Affairs, but we naturally work very closely with the department.

I'd like to take this opportunity to share with you another initiative that we hope to have in place very soon. It is to allow for, and in fact encourage, the continued service of those who have been injured in combat and in the line of duty. I've undertaken quite extensive discussions with the assistant deputy of personnel, as well as the Chief of the Defence Staff and others.

I would share with committee members the very poignant and quite humbling experience of having seen two of our injured soldiers who have returned to Afghanistan with the Van Doos regiment. Both of them suffered very serious injuries, yet they are serving actively in Afghanistan. The Chief of the Defence Staff and Chief Warrant Officer of the Canadian Forces promoted them while they are serving in Afghanistan, just this past week. It was certainly a very emotional and morale-boosting experience for the troops present to see this happen, and to see the absolute courage and conviction of these soldiers to return to Afghanistan after having suffered grievous injuries there on previous tours.

We hope to institutionalize that, by the way, to make sure that members are encouraged and embraced, should they choose to stay in uniform after having suffered those injuries.

[Bryon Wilfert, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

We know that you received our post-traumatic stress disorder study very well. We appreciate that, because with increasing numbers of veterans coming home, I think that's another area where resources are going to be increasingly needed.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

Thank you.

I will now give the floor to Ms. Gallant. After that it will be Mr. Bachand. Then we'll have to close the debate.

Ms. Gallant.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Under the explanation of requirements in transfers we have transfers from Environment Canada; return of unused funds relating to chemical, biological, radiological, nuclear research and technology initiatives; as well as the transfer below relating those items to the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, Natural Resources, etc.

Would you explain to the committee what those initiatives were about and why the money transfers occurred?

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

Environment Canada received that funding in the amount of $630,000—for chemical, biological, radiological initiatives. It was to be used through the supplementary estimates of the same fiscal year, and Environment Canada is returning an amount of about $136,000. This came about as a result of the transfer from other government departments in the budget in 2010-11. In order to require funding for these other government departments, the money went back to the participants in the program—RCMP, Natural Resources, National Research Council, and Health Canada.

The funds were used to develop and maintain laboratory services across these partner departments. This was to enhance our capability in responding to emergencies, environmental spills, biological release, chemicals, explosive research, and radiological nuclear research. In the current context of what we're seeing unfold in Japan, the more knowledge that we can garner from various departments, experiments, and laboratory work, the better we will be as we work to improve cooperation and information sharing. This program is a whole-of-government effort. It has a mandate that ran for five years from 2002. The program was renewed in the first year of our government in 2006, and the program is all about enhancing Canada's capability to work with other departments in the face of a chemical, biological, or nuclear explosive event. We need to make investments in this area, to collaborate, and to conduct reseach. In the overall scheme of things, $5 million per year is a small amount relative to the overall budget, and it will not affect next year's funding within the same areas of research.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

That had nothing to do with the atomic veterans recognition program?

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

Nothing whatsoever.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

All right.

Could you elaborate on the funding allocated to combat human smuggling?