National Defence Committee on Sept. 22nd, 2011

[Rick Norlock, Conservative, Northumberland—Quinte West, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

To the witnesses, thank you for being here this morning.

My first question is a sort of a two-part one, but both parts are very similar.

As we're replacing U.S. trainers, has there been any difficulty in taking over with regard to standardization of instruction methodology and the type of lesson plan? That's both from the Canadian perspective and your observation from the Afghani perspective.

Second, I'm pretty sure that we fall currently under the American chain of command. Have there been any difficulties coupled with that in the transition and the application of a Canadian approach to instruction, in particular to mentorship?

[BGen Craig King]

Thanks for the questions, both really good ones. I was going to ask if you're a trainer by background, because those are excellent questions that we get involved with as we look at institutional training.

[An hon. member]

He trains other MPs.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[BGen Craig King]

The standardization of training is not that much of an issue between the allies because we're doing it within the framework of NATO, where our doctrine, our training, and our concepts are very closely aligned. What we represent as Canadians in that is a vast amount of expertise in the training domain and a lot of experience with respect to combat.

I read an article some time ago where somebody was questioning whether we would have the same impact with the Afghans now that we're in a training role. Our credibility to do that job is who we are. We are the best trainers in the world, full stop. And it's also a function of what we have experienced. That is respected by our allies, and they look for the contributions that we make individually in that environment. I can tell you that it's definitely respected by the Afghans. They want our help; they look to our mentorship. I have to tell you, the Canadian aspect of what we do there is the respect we have for culture because of the diverse society from which we draw our people and the constant exposure we have in this great country. That is very much appreciated by the Afghans, absolutely.

But standardization, sir, is not a problem.

[Rick Norlock, Conservative, Northumberland—Quinte West, ON]

Very good. Thank you.

In slide number six you alluded to some of the types of training, and I'd like to go into this in more depth. By the way, my background is policing--30 years with the Ontario Provincial Police.

Aside from basic combat training, what other sorts of training and instruction are going on with the ANA, in particular the types of training? I think in the modern concepts, and I think you alluded to this in some of your other responses, there are other subjects, such as logistics and personal management, because these skills are often overlooked or not thought of by the general public. I think it would be good to note that.

[BGen Craig King]

Absolutely. Another excellent question.

As you can appreciate, an army is a diverse organism, so you have programs of instruction for everything from recruits to officers and senior officers even. So what I'll refer to is just a typical program of instruction that you would have, let's say, within the recruits.

He's brought in and there would be an emphasis on the basic skills that a soldier would require: his ability to operate his weapon or weapons that are within his organization; physical fitness and building a robust stamina to be able to withstand the conditions of combat and operations in their country; specific skills related to first aid and to be able to do basic communications; and on top of that, some very specific training aspects of their syllabus related to the law of armed conflict, human rights, and ethics, so that we can address the kinds of things we were discussing recently, such as how do we prevent creating warlords and all that other stuff. These are all things that go on.

The other thing, too, that's interesting within the institutions of the army and the police is the role of women. There is a tolerance aspect that is imparted. I think we have something in the neighbourhood of 1,400 women who are spread between the army and the police right now in the security forces. I can tell you that for a country like Afghanistan, that is not an insignificant accomplishment.

In terms of special skills, we are involved with communications schooling, in particular in Kabul, to give you a sense of some of the specialist training. We're doing medical training up in Mazar-e-Sharif. There's something in the neighbourhood of 11 branch schools that have been developed to provide specialist skills to the Afghans that go beyond the basic training I described for a recruit.

On top of that, we're talking about a further level of training and professional development for the leadership. The leadership is key; that is how we transition to the Afghans the running of their own security forces, so that they do it themselves and we're not there.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Thank you.

Madame Moore.

[Christine Moore, NDP, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

In November 2010, the Government of Canada issued a backgrounder on the themes of the Canadian mission in Afghanistan for 2011-2014. The document stated that the Canadian mission will be centred on Kabul and will focus on four key areas.

One of those areas is the advancement of security, the rule of law and human rights, including through the provision of up to 950 trainers for Afghan security forces. I understand the role of the Canadian Forces in that area.

However, I am somewhat unsure about the three other areas: promoting regional diplomacy, contributing to the delivery of humanitarian assistance, and investing in the future of Afghan children and youth through development programs in education and health.

I would like to know whether the Canadian Forces are playing an active role in those areas, or whether other organizations have been entrusted with that mandate.

[BGen Craig King]

Thank you very much, Madam.

If it's okay with you, I will answer in my mother tongue.

There is a whole-of-government effort for Afghanistan to address the issues you raised.

Ma'am, I don't want to deflect the issue, but I want to make sure that my area of expertise is properly represented. I would invite you to discuss with the Department of Foreign Affairs and CIDA the role that you've mentioned in those areas.

I can tell you from a Canadian Forces perspective that we are very much focused on the requirements that have been set for us by the Government of Canada. So the Canadian Forces, right now, are focused on transitioning out of Kandahar and providing training assistance to the Afghans through the NATO training mission.

The only thing that I would say, in terms of humanitarian assistance, is that as we're going through the mission transition task force, if we find there are items that are more economical to donate than move back to Canada, we have the mechanisms in place to be able to divest or apply those assets to agencies that look after humanitarian assistance on the ground, through umbrella organizations and Afghan NGOs. I would say that as a matter of focus, that is where the Canadian Forces are right now in those areas.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

We'll pause the time.

I agree with you, General King, in not wanting to talk outside your areas of expertise. I just want to draw the committee members' attention to O'Brien and Bosc, page 1068 and 1069, where it says:

...committees ordinarily accept the reasons that a public servant gives for declining to answer a specific question or series of questions which involve the giving of a legal opinion, which may be perceived as a conflict with the witness’ responsibility to the Minister, which are outside of their own area of responsibility

—which I think is applicable here—

or which might affect business transactions.

Because we don't have DFAIT or CIDA here, I think we need to make sure that the questioning is targeted strictly to the operations of the Canadian Forces in Afghanistan.

With that, I'll turn back to you, Madam Moore.

[Christine Moore, NDP, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I just wanted to know whether the Canadian Forces play a role in those areas. The brigadier-general's answer has clarified that the Canadian Forces are really focusing their efforts on the first area I mentioned, the advancement of security, the rule of law and the training of Afghan security forces. That answers my question. I simply wanted to know whether the Canadian Forces play a role in the three other areas.

There's something else that worries me. Fighting is still raging in several other regions of Afghanistan. Should the fighting escalate considerably, could the current mission be reorganized to include the military component of Canada's mission again, if I may put it that way?

[BGen Craig King]

Thank you for your question, ma'am.

It's always dangerous to get into speculation, but clearly the whole reason we're there doing the training is that if there is a flare-up in a particular region or a wider conflagration, or however you want to term it, the Afghan national security forces will be fully capable of managing those matters on their own. That's the end state that we all want to get towards.

So in terms of our current transitioning, I can't see a requirement for revisiting the combat role. The Afghans are well capable of managing their affairs and they are getting better at doing that. So the answer is no.

[Christine Moore, NDP, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

The Amnesty International Report 2010 states the following:

Women and girls continued to face widespread discrimination, domestic violence, and abduction and rape by armed individuals. They continued to be trafficked, traded in settlement of disputes and debts, and forced into marriages, including under-age marriages. In some instances women and girls were specifically targeted for attack by the Taleban [sic] and other armed groups.

Regarding the training of Afghan police and military forces, I want to know how the status of women in Afghanistan is being emphasized and how police officers are being trained to remedy this problem experienced by the women of that country, or to at least make some improvements to their situation.

[BGen Craig King]

I can't comment with any authority on the status of women and programs that address those very serious questions you've raised. I would say that the status of women is of great concern to us all, and I will say that as a matter of their government policy in Afghanistan they're taking great steps towards reinforcing the role of women and their place in Afghan society. I would say that is one area where there is great contrast to what the Taliban would wish to see with respect to the status of women. Whereas the education of girls has been promoted by the government, Taliban are completely against that kind of right being afforded to them.

I feel compelled to offer a comment there because of just being exposed to the society for as long as I was. I will tell you that it is an area where some significant strides have been made.

I'll return to my area of competence, which is on the training of Afghan security forces. It all starts with education and a recognition that in the case of the police, policing comprises all elements of society, male and female, and that in order to accord the respect we need to see within a society, gender representation in security forces is extremely important. I think the actual performance of the Afghan policewomen, who face considerable threat of assassination by doing this, speaks volumes to the fact that we've been able to, with our Afghan partners, integrate them into training regimes. So you're dealing with cultures of nations here, and anytime you're in that domain it's extremely difficult and it's a deliberate process. But I think through a combination of all those factors, there is an emerging good-news story for women in Afghanistan.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Merci.

Mr. Chisu, you have the floor.

[Corneliu Chisu, Conservative, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you very much, General King, for your presentation. I understand very well the complexity of a transitional operation, as I was involved in Bosnia in closing down the Zgon and Black Bear. I know that you are in a difficult and a different situation there. Also, I was serving in Afghanistan in 2007. I was building the facilities that probably you are demolishing at this point.

I have a question for you. We are doing two operations at this point. We are doing the transitional operation, which is involving a seaport and an airport, of course, and I see from your slides that you have a seaport in Pakistan and another one I don't know where.

[BGen Craig King]

It started today in Kuwait, sir.

[Corneliu Chisu, Conservative, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

Kuwait.

When you are doing operations of this kind, you need to repatriate the vehicles and materiel. So you have some personnel deployed in these seaports and the airports.

[BGen Craig King]

Right, absolutely.

[Corneliu Chisu, Conservative, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

If you can describe--

[BGen Craig King]

But not in Pakistan, just to be absolutely....

[Corneliu Chisu, Conservative, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

Can you describe the operations and how this transition is working? Do you have any civilian personnel left in Kandahar, like CANCAP, or are they not there any more?

[BGen Craig King]

Right. Honestly, I'd have to get back to you on CANCAP and the civilians, on anything to do with that.

[Corneliu Chisu, Conservative, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

If you can get us information on this operation, how complex it is, and how it is overlapping with the training facility and the training operation...because there are concurrent operations going on at this point.