National Defence Committee on Sept. 22nd, 2011

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Mr. Opitz, your time has expired.

Mr. Brahmi, go ahead.

[Tarik Brahmi, NDP, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My first question is for the brigadier-general.

According to slide 7, there are a number of other training locations, where staff are provided with guidance and advice.

What other locations do the Canadian Forces use to conduct operations in Afghanistan?

[BGen Craig King]

Thank you for the question, sir.

They're still located within the three locations I described: Kabul, Mazar-e-Sharif in the north, and Herat in the west.

To give you an idea, I just highlighted two of the main or biggest ones, the Kabul military training centre and the consolidated fielding centre. But to give you an idea of where else we are, in Kabul we're at the Afghan signal school; their medical academy; the Afghan National Civil Order Police, or ANCOP, a special type of police that are employed, whose national headquarters we are at in Kabul; the Afghan border police headquarters; and we're providing assistance to ministerial advisers and other elements through the NATO training structure.

In Mazar-e Sharif, we're providing medical training at the regional military hospital there, which is a training centre. They have a series of regional training centres just like we do here in Canada. We're providing support there, and there is a police training centre up in Mazar-e-Sharif, where we have a presence as well. In Herat there is a regional military training centre, where we have a small contribution of about 16 folks.

[Tarik Brahmi, NDP, Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Chair, I have another question for the brigadier-general.

Of all staff, over 800 strong, how many trainers actually train individuals?

[BGen Craig King]

I would say the ratio is quite favourable. I would honestly have to do an analysis and get back to you on what the actual breakdown is, but we can do that. But our presence there is not preponderantly doing desk jobs, or if those people are doing desk jobs, it's because they're mentoring an Afghan who has a desk job. So our people are preponderantly doing training at the front end.

[Tarik Brahmi, NDP, Saint-Jean, QC]

As for the language problem, I would like to know what languages are predominantly used, aside from Pashto. I also want to know how many Canadian Forces members can speak Pashto. Also, if only a small number of them can speak one of the local languages, how likely is it that the Taliban will end up interpreting for them?

[BGen Craig King]

Thanks very much for the question. When you were asking it, I was trying to remember some of my experiences on the language issue back when I was in Afghanistan.

It's a very complex environment with respect to language, because you have major ethnic groups. You made mention of the Pashtuns. There is a unifying language that is used, which most if not all Afghans can speak. I'm just trying to remember what it is. It's not Pashto. Forgive me, but the name just escapes me right now.

The way we interact in the environment there is through interpreters. Interpreters are an invaluable resource. They are very, very carefully screened, and we find that we operate extremely well with them. Many times, a lot of the interpreters who I ran into actually had family connections back in Canada, or the United States, or wherever, which actually accounted for their linguistic ability. But they are carefully screened with a very rigorous process of checks to avoid the exact thing you described. I would extend that to the Afghan national security forces as well, where there is a very extensive program of identification and background checks before we accept these people into our training.

[Tarik Brahmi, NDP, Saint-Jean, QC]

We know that drug trafficking is an important source of income for the Taliban. How does what the Canadian Forces pay those interpreters measure up against what they could make through drug trafficking?

[BGen Craig King]

What does a drug trafficker make in Afghanistan?

I would say that drugs are still a very serious social issue in Afghanistan. Clearly, though, if you deal in the drug environment, you're incurring all kinds of problems, not the least of which is that you're living outside the law. So for anybody who is minded with working within the law.... Our responsibility, as we look at the Afghan security forces and the support as an institution, is to make sure that they can gain a wage that allows them to live, so that they avoid a situation where their only recourse is to become involved in the drug trade because there's no employment or what they're being paid from their employment is insufficient to allow them to live.

I think we've taken steps with the Afghan security forces to do that. Pay was haphazard before, so you would have the Afghan police setting up checkpoints and shaking down the local population. If that occurs, it is extremely rare now because the wages that we're able to impart to the police and to the army allow them to live a decent quality of life and to support their families. The average Afghan soldier sends his money to his family in some other part of the country, for example.

So it's a serious problem that you've described. It's something we're aware of, and it all relates to how we're setting up the system of pay to those involved with the security forces, translators included.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Thank you. Time has expired.

Just to follow up on one of Mr. Brahmi's questions, though, are there any Canadian Forces members who have the linguistic capabilities of functioning in the native tongue in Afghanistan?

[BGen Craig King]

I'd have to get back to you. Honestly, that's a level of detail I'd have to check into, sir.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Mr. Strahl, you have the floor.

[Mark Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

We just saw that there was a very high-profile, very coordinated attack on the U.S. embassy and NATO headquarters on September 13, with a tragic loss of life of Afghan personnel. Is this an indication that the level of violence has risen since we transitioned into a training role, or is it still the same level of danger that we've seen throughout?

[BGen Craig King]

That's a good question. The potential, because of the media profile of what happened on September 13, is that the impression could be given that all hell is breaking loose in Kabul. The fact of the matter is that the number of security incidents that have occurred in Kabul over time are on a steady decrease. What we saw last week was certainly a well-planned and determined effort by people who are prepared to die to do what they're doing.

I would just highlight that Kabul is a city of five million people. It's a developed urban environment. This is a very difficult environment in which to operate. The significant thing, from my perspective as a military officer, last week was the response that was furnished. It was Afghan-led. It took approximately 20 hours or so before the thing was cleaned up. But if you think about what happened in Mumbai a few years ago, by comparison, these things happen, and it took a matter of days for that event to be secured.

So the Afghan forces will do things their way, and in this case, certainly as we're observing this, we are seeing a lot of positive signs, notwithstanding the seriousness of what occurred. I assure you that the people on the ground are studying this very carefully and taking the necessary measures to pre-empt any future ones--not to say it won't happen, but this is something that is continually reviewed, continually studied, and we're very, very diligent in this area.

[Mark Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Are you able to tell us if there were any Canadian Forces or others directly threatened by that attack and any that directly responded to it?

[BGen Craig King]

There was a report that came in that one of our mobile convoys was engaged in some of the exchange of fire, but I would not want to go into any kind of detail on that. But yes, there were Canadian Forces personnel who were travelling who were implicated, yes.

[Mark Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon, BC]

As we continue on the training mission, we talked about the Afghan National Army being able to handle their own operations. When do we anticipate that they'll be able to handle their own training as well?

[BGen Craig King]

I think they're handling their own training now. It's a journey, so that process continues, and it's a question of perfecting over time how they manage that. It's only going to get better. As I was indicating earlier in response to one of the questions, some of the positive signs that we're seeing already are certainly encouraging to us.

[Mark Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Ms. Sinclair, as Canada is transitioning from our combat role to a training mission, can you elaborate on the contributions of our NATO partners in that area as well? Are there others that have taken a similar approach to transitioning into a primarily training role? What assistance are our NATO partners providing, besides the U.S., in the training of the Afghan National Army?

[Jill Sinclair]

Thanks for the question.

We can certainly get you all the detailed numbers around the participation of NATO allies and ISAF partners in training. This is very much a shared responsibility. You've mentioned the United States and the United Kingdom in particular. As the general said, we're the second-largest contributor to the NATO training mission in Afghanistan. So Canada's contribution is a very significant one.

People are offering, including non-NATO partners who are associated with ISAF, all sorts of capacity-building efforts. So what you're finding is a little bit of support from non-traditional partners, like the Jordanians and others. The training mission, because it's a mission of giving the capability to the Afghans to make that transition that they themselves want to do in 2014, has commanded a lot of support. Those who are not able to actually do stuff on the ground in Afghanistan are offering financial support to the NATO training mission too. We could certainly give you some breakdown of that, Mr. Chair.

[Mark Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Thank you, Mr. Strahl.

Mr. Alexander, you are batting cleanup.

[Chris Alexander, Conservative, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

Thanks very much, Chair.

First, I'd like to commend the Canadian Forces for their performance at all stages of Operation Athena as it closes out. Athena is the goddess, if I'm correct, of wisdom, warfare, and intelligence, and I think they've displayed all of those qualities in the highest degree at every stage.

We're obviously all in mourning for former president Rabbani. Our Prime Minister expressed yesterday condolences and concern across Canada. President Rabbani was someone who contributed strongly to disarmament, to the first formation of a parliament in Afghanistan, and now to reconciliation.

Mr. Stanekzai, who you mentioned, Brigadier, was someone I and many others worked with very intensely over a decade--in my case, six years--in Afghanistan. To hear that he has been badly wounded is just awful.

But we do need to be careful about drawing conclusions about what we are heading towards this year, or in 2014. I certainly do not think it need be a civil war. On the contrary, as you have implied, if one looks at the nature of the continuing conflict and the roots of these sorts of attacks, the roots are not inside Afghanistan. We have to ask what will be the future of the reconciliation process in the wake of this attack, but it's not a defence question; it's a political question, which other committees will have the opportunity to take up, and I hope we as parliamentarians in another context.

My questions will focus on Operation Attention. First, could you clarify for us what roughly the Canadian share of the mission is? We know we're the second-biggest contributor, but what does that represent in terms of the overall numbers? Secondly, does Major-General Day have a position in the NATO training mission, apart from commanding the Canadian component?

[BGen Craig King]

I'll answer the second first, if I may. Absolutely, he's the deputy commander for the development of the army there, which is a very high position and a position of considerable authority and influence within the NATO training mission structure. General Day is a good friend of mine, and to have him in that position I think is great for Canada, for the Canadian Forces, and for Mike.

The other question, on the numbers, sir, I'll have to defer on that one. I just don't have that information readily at hand. You'd think I would, but for some reason I just don't have it. I'll have to get back to you, sir.

[Chris Alexander, Conservative, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

Okay, thank you.

This relates to a question posed by Mr. Strahl, but I think it would be of interest to all of us to know whether there are still gaps in the NATO training mission. Obviously we've filled in some serious capabilities. The last time I checked, there were still some missing pieces. Could you either identify them for us today or get back to us on that?

Also, your opening statement said that Operation Athena is our participation in ISAF and Operation Attention is the name of the contribution to the NATO training mission. My understanding is that the NATO training mission is under ISAF command. Is that not so?