National Defence Committee on Nov. 27th, 2012

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

Thank you very much.

This is an exciting project, and one that I know northerners are embracing. There is a station there that the Canadian Forces share with other departments, but this facility is there very much to help train and facilitate a future presence of members of the Canadian Forces in such missions as Operation Nanook and others that happen annually.

We're working with Natural Resources in particular on this project to expand the polar continental shelf program, which is located at Resolute in Nunavut. This expansion of the facility will allow for additional accommodation so that we can have more of our members there to share this facility. It's a multi-purpose facility shared with Natural Resources.

It's all about reinforcing the Canadian Forces presence in the Arctic, in keeping with the Prime Minister's commitments and those of our government. We're transferring $1 million to Natural Resources Canada on this particular project. This will help our department as well as NRCan in carrying out our respective mandates and doing so in a cost-effective way. This is one of those many ways in which we're sharing facilities and working with other departments to find efficiencies and cost savings.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Thank you. The time has expired.

Go ahead, Mr. Kellway, for five minutes.

[Matthew Kellway, NDP, Beaches—East York, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, Minister, and your team, for coming today.

Mr. Chair, I'm going to be splitting my time with Mr. Harris, so I was hoping that with a minute left you could rudely, or politely, interrupt me--politely if it's one of the witnesses talking with a minute left.

Minister, you've raised the issue of the Canada First defence strategy a number of times and you've talked about what good financial health the department is in, but I'm wondering what kind of shape you consider the CFDS to be in.

It surfaced last May in Minister Fantino's briefing book that because of the 2010 budget cuts, the CFDS was unaffordable, so at this point in time it seems that if we're carrying forward with the CFDS, we're driving off a fiscal cliff, and if we back it off, we're off a policy cliff. I'm wondering which way we're going.

You made reference to a refresh. When can we expect something of that nature?

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Go ahead, Mr. Alexander, on a point of order.

[Chris Alexander, Conservative, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

With my apologies to the committee, we've had the Leslie report three times, we've had the Auditor General's report, and now we have the Canada First defence strategy refresh and a very wide-ranging question about that—anything but the supplementary estimates (B), which are quite substantive.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Thank you, Mr. Harris, on that point of order.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

That's vote 1b, page 154, “Operating expenditures and authority”, for a total commitment of over $30 billion over the next number of years. This is a very broad item here that's giving authority to authorize these expenditures. I thought it was perfectly legitimate to ask a question about whether all of these plans are affordable, given the state of the costs and expenditures. I just think it's perfectly reasonable. Certainly, it's all encompassed in one big—

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Go ahead, Mr. Kellway.

[Matthew Kellway, NDP, Beaches—East York, ON]

Mr. Chair, I think you've already ruled on the substance of this point of order. With respect to the Leslie report, it's been brought up by the witnesses in testimony multiple times, as has the CFDS.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Minister MacKay, what answer do you see fits into your overall testimony?

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

As the member would know, the Canada First defence strategy, which was first produced in 2008, was the culmination of a great deal of work driven mainly by the former Chief of the Defence Staff, General Natynczyk. It's a document that is a long-term view, looking out over all of the pillars of defence, on the infrastructure side, our equipment needs, and looking forward with respect to our personnel commitments, and of course our readiness, which is a big part of—

[Matthew Kellway, NDP, Beaches—East York, ON]

With respect to my questions, when you respond with, “As the member would know”, that should be a signal that I don't need to actually hear that. I would appreciate very much your response to—

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

I don't ever assume what you know, Mr. Kellway, ever.

[Matthew Kellway, NDP, Beaches—East York, ON]

You seem to, because in your testimony you just said, “As the member would know”, so you obviously do.

I'd just ask if you could answer the question. What can we expect with respect to the timing of the refresh that you talked about in the media last June and again today, in fact?

Thank you.

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

I think the member would expect, if not know, that post-budget there will be an announcement. There will be work that will then be made available for his ever-knowing eyes on the Canada First defence strategy in a number of areas.

It's a 20-year document. It's something that has to be kept ever fresh. The needs change. The experience of Afghanistan was very instructive as to what the future needs will be, as was Libya, as was some of the very challenging work that was done in Haiti by members of the Canadian Forces.

There will be a refresh. It is already under way. Some of that work will result in announcements with respect to the future of the Canada First defence strategy.

[Matthew Kellway, NDP, Beaches—East York, ON]

Thank you, Minister. The Canada First defence strategy includes reference to the CF-18 replacement. The media recently were talking about the new secretariat's being uncomfortable with the previous statement of requirements and doing its own due diligence on what the RCAF is likely to need in the coming years.

I'm wondering how this process referred to in the—

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

On a point of order, go ahead, Mr. Alexander.

[Chris Alexander, Conservative, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

Mr. Chair, there are a lot of things in the Canada First defence strategy, but the attitude of the fighter procurement secretariat, which was not created at that time, is not one of them.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

I will agree with that. I don't see anywhere on vote 1b the mention of that particular one, or in the testimony from the minister. He did talk about fixed-wing search and rescue, tactical patrol vehicles, new warships, but he didn't go into the F-35, so I would like you to rephrase that question.

During points of order we were stopping the clock, but you're down to 10 seconds. You told me to interrupt you rudely, if I had to.

[Matthew Kellway, NDP, Beaches—East York, ON]

Indeed, so I’m still on a point of order before you restart that clock, Mr. Chair. or refresh the clock—thank you, Mr. McKay.

Mr. Chair, I wasn't asking specifically about the F-35. If I'd been able to finish my question, I was getting on to the issue of the options analysis under way, which, it seems to me, has everything to do with a component.

I know that Mr. Alexander is very keen that we ask questions of detail. This is a question of detail about the CFDS and its promise of a fighter replacement. As for the budgetary issues, I think they're obviously captured in the Canada First defence strategy. I'm looking at chart 3 on page 12, which identifies some costing for that. Mr. Harris has already raised the issue of its obviously being part of a vote to come.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

On that issue, I would say that if it relates to the replacement of CF-18s, which is right now under the control of a different committee—public works is heading that secretariat—it doesn't have anything to do with us.

We have been talking about the Canada First defence strategy. With only 10 seconds left, I'll leave it up to you if you want to ask that question and use up the rest of your time or if you want to pass off to Mr. Harris the one minute and 10 seconds left, as you previously asked for.

I believe that the minister will take more than 10 seconds to answer that question.

[Matthew Kellway, NDP, Beaches—East York, ON]

I think you're correct, Mr. Chair, but I would point out that the options analysis is being done in Minister MacKay's department.

With that, I surrender and hand it over to Mr. Harris.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Mr. Harris, go ahead.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Thank you, Chair, and thank you, Minister, for coming.

I want to use this minute to make a motion,

That the Committee formally ask the Minister of National Defence to undertake to the Committee to release information that the Parliamentary Budget Officer has requested on the cuts in his department, both to the Parliamentary Budget Officer and to this Committee.

I wanted to make that motion while he is here so that he could give us a chance to respond to it.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

We have a motion on the floor. It is in order.

Is there discussion on the motion?

Mr. McKay, go ahead.