National Defence Committee on Feb. 25th, 2014

[Col Gerry Blais]

Normally, when there is a transition committee, the member then has six months to three years. However, to reach that point, very often, three, four or even five years may go by until the person's condition stabilizes.

[Élaine Michaud, NDP, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you for those details; I would like to raise another topic.

At committee meetings, we have heard a lot about various programs available to our military members who come back from combat zones. Do you have a specific approach for women, since the family dynamic will not necessarily be the same for them. Moreover, the way in which they experience post-traumatic stress and express it within the armed forces will not necessarily be the same. Do you have a specific approach to help women who return from combat zones and who are suffering from the same problems as the men?

[Col Gerry Blais]

Are you talking about medical treatment?

[Élaine Michaud, NDP, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

No, because pills are pills.

I am talking, rather, about a psychological approach and a specific program adapted for women and their reality, which will be different.

[Col Gerry Blais]

All of our programs are for everyone, whether they concern a war injury, someone who has cancer or some other injury. We treat all of our injured and sick members in the same way.

Regarding women, there are women who work in each of our centres. So, if the person is more comfortable with a woman, she will certainly have the opportunity of availing herself of those services.

[Élaine Michaud, NDP, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

So there is no specific program to deal with women's different problems in particular, as regards family life, separation from children, reintegration into work or even the way in which they are treated within the forces. They might be treated differently if they show more weakness. They could be perceived differently by their peers.

That is something I am submitting to you today, and perhaps you could think about it over the long term. It might be good to come back to this issue.

[Col Gerry Blais]

It is something to think about. I thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Peter Kent]

Thank you, Ms. Michaud.

Mr. Bezan.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank both Colonel Blais and Colonel Mann for coming in today. I appreciate all the work that you're doing and that all the personnel under your command are doing with our military families, as well as what they're doing with our members of the Canadian armed forces who are in the JPSU. I had the privilege of talking with some members of the JPSU over the last week and to some of their family members as well. I can tell you that spouses are appreciative of the support they're getting through military family services.

There's one concern that was brought up to me from a family standpoint. They understand that they don't always have access to consistent medical care across the country and that it changes from base to base, and I know that it's a concern having to find a family doctor again and reintegrate into a new community. One of the concerns that did come up was on the training side of it. You know how we offer training to members of the JPSU and those who are transitioning out so that they can go out and get new courses. One of the issues that was brought forward that I think we may want to talk about and discuss is this: what if that member of the Canadian armed forces is not going to be able to work and the breadwinner is going to be the spouse? What can we do to help that spouse and their education aspirations in order to gain better employment to support their families?

[Col Russell Mann]

Veterans Affairs is very mindful of that and has established a vocational rehab program specifically aimed at spouses who will become the primary breadwinners following a transition where the member is in fact either not employable or less employable than they were while they were in uniform.

We have not sat on that either. What we're trying to do is pull out the information and insights from a spousal employment income study and do a gap analysis over what Veterans Affairs offers, in order to look at ways in which we may be able to fill gaps in what's available to families. That could be additional educational support. It could be additional counselling. We're trying, though, to find out where we fit in regard to helping that spouse, versus what Veterans Affairs already offers. We were talking as recently as last week with Veterans Affairs about the need to address this issue collectively so that we don't duplicate what's out there.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake, MB]

I think this is key to what the committee has been considering. One of the issues we're concerned about is that hand-off. As they're transitioning out of the forces and moving over to care under Veterans Affairs, how do we make sure that no one is falling through the cracks? Anything that you've learned through this process and that you can share with the committee would be highly beneficial to our overall report.

Colonel Blais, you mentioned the survey you did and the 90% satisfaction rate, which is huge. That's a great result. But I wonder if you could speak to the other 10%. What are their concerns? What are the lessons learned from that 10%?

We'll never satisfy everybody. I understand that. But out of that 10%, are there lessons to be learned there? Are there ways to improve services so that they would feel better about the JPSU experience and the transition into civilian life?

[Col Gerry Blais]

I would say that with regard to the majority of the 10% who are leaving and who not as happy, they either believe they should have been retained or they perhaps would have liked to stay longer in the armed forces, which in their case unfortunately just wasn't possible. Everything that could have been done from a health care aspect was done. They were set up for success as well as possible in the civilian world. Unfortunately, they would have liked to stay longer.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake, MB]

An issue that has come up is that in the larger communities where JPSUs exist, there isn't any cohesiveness. Everybody just kind of reports in once or twice a week, or whatever they're required to do.

But if they're not actively involved in a peer support group or OSI clinic, or actively engaged with activities happening on base, I'm wondering if there is a way that we can do outreach and let them again...because I think it creates some anxiety as well for them that they feel disconnected.

[Col Gerry Blais]

That's an excellent point.

That's the importance of the return to work program. The return to work program can be as simple as, at the beginning, somebody just going to the gym three times a week. A lot of those who are suffering from operational stress injuries want to be quiet, want to close themselves off from the rest of the world. Bringing them into any kind of social environment is a beginning. Those are the types of things we're trying to achieve through those programs. It's a slow progression.

In other cases, we've brought them out into the civilian community to work with animals. One young man in Petawawa was on a buffalo farm. Actually, from that came one of the happiest moments I've had as CO of the unit. The young man couldn't even put his uniform on, or see a uniform, and I was able to present him with his Sacrifice Medal while he wore his Canadian Forces dress uniform.

[The Chair, Conservative, Peter Kent]

Thank you, Colonel.

Mr. Larose.

[Jean-François Larose, NDP, Repentigny, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Colonel Mann, earlier you mentioned the InterCom program, which I find interesting. If I understood correctly, that program has been in existence for a year and consists in coaching for couples. About a hundred couples have taken part in it over the past year. Is that correct?

[Col Russell Mann]

Since January.

[Jean-François Larose, NDP, Repentigny, QC]

So it is quite recent.

You only coach couples, but in fact the reality is much broader than that. Indeed, many soldiers are not members of couples. If they need tools, their families are often the ones that inherit that responsibility.

Is that program open to families, or only to couples?

[Col Russell Mann]

Unfortunately, I cannot answer you with precision, but I can attempt to determine what the current situation is. This program is quite recent and honestly, I must say that the only statistics I have right now are for couples. I don't know if single people may attend the training.

[Jean-François Larose, NDP, Repentigny, QC]

I most of all wanted to know if the parents could take part in this. They also need coaching to know what to do, either regarding prevention or support.

[Col Russell Mann]

I will endeavour to obtain the answer to that question.

[Jean-François Larose, NDP, Repentigny, QC]

Thank you.

I will continue in the same vein. Troops and families have access to the Joint Personnel Support Unit. There is information circulating about that.

When the red flag comes down, from the moment they get....

We meet those people, we give them information, this is sent up the chain of command, and then the question is studied. As you mentioned earlier, each case is examined on its merits. Examining each case is complex since each one is different; we have to compile data and then send it on after that.

This is what I would like to know. As for change and adaptation, what structure is there for all of the programs that are put into effect? It is a good thing that new programs are created, but they have to be adapted.

Do you have any idea of the time this can take? Does it take one, two, three or four years?

[Col Gerry Blais]

All of our programs are constantly reviewed. There is a continuous improvement process which is very important. We even have a group of people who devote themselves to improving our programs. We take into account the suggestions made by the injured, the chain of command, the families, and we then try to improve our programs continuously.

[Jean-François Larose, NDP, Repentigny, QC]

How long does that take? That is good that you listen to suggestions, but then the programs have to be adapted, which involves costs and the need to set up mechanisms.

[Col Gerry Blais]

Oftentimes, we can make changes immediately. If we receive a suggestion that seems very reasonable and we can change something, we can do so immediately, so long as we are not talking about legislative change. In those cases there is no delay.