Thank you.
Evidence of meeting #23 for National Defence in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was defense.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #23 for National Defence in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was defense.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:20 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Rick Norlock
Thank you very much, Mr. Blanchette.
Ms. Gallant, for five minutes.
12:20 p.m.
Conservative
Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON
I will continue on from where we left off with smart meters. The different smart appliances send the messages to the smart meter for reading or for adding up the kilowatt hours used. Now, it's my understanding that in order to read what the smart meters are accruing, the cellphone infrastructure is used and transmits the data to an entity that eventually does the billing. Where cellphone connectivity does not exist, there are remote readers used.
From those two lines of connection, between the smart meter and the building that collects all the information, and the remote reader where cellphone is not available, are there areas of vulnerability there?
12:20 p.m.
Managing Director, Sonecon, LLC, As an Individual
There are areas of vulnerability, but also enormous advantages. Let me speak about the advantages first.
We saw in hurricane Sandy very strong evidence that the kind of connectivity that you're describing between meters and the grid operators can help speed the restoration of power in very important ways, because all of a sudden the grid operators have a map of which households are missing power and which are up and running. So when you think about where to send your power restoration crews, having this automated flow of information rather than having utility trucks drive around and eyeball where the lights are out, it's enormously efficient and very helpful in speeding power restoration. So the smart grid is helpful for grid resilience.
But as you point out, this kind of connectivity, wireless connectivity, cell connectivity, could provide means of inserting bad data, malware, that electric companies are very mindful of today, and they are building security against those kinds of intrusions. What we need to do is continue dialogue with industry to make sure that best practices are being applied across utilities, that there's a sharing of information between government and industry about the threat signatures that they need to be monitoring, and that we do whatever we can to build protection against these kinds of intrusions.
12:20 p.m.
Conservative
Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON
What sort of trouble could an incursion cause, besides obviously billing errors? How could it wreak havoc on both society and individuals?
12:20 p.m.
Managing Director, Sonecon, LLC, As an Individual
The ultimate threat is that the industrial control systems that help operate the electric power system will be physically damaged. We saw examples of how this can happen in the Aurora test conducted at the Idaho National Laboratory. It is possible that physical effects can be created by computer attacks. The risk of physical damage on a widespread basis, that's frightening because of the difficulty of replacing some of these grid components. That's important.
Let me emphasize also that corrupting the data on which grid operators depend in order to restore power after an outage provides an additional emerging threat vector. As you know, grid operators need to carefully balance the amount of power that's being generated against the load, that is, the amount of electricity that's being used. This needs to be carefully calibrated. If grid operators can't believe the data they're seeing because the data itself has been attacked, that's just as devastating as a bank or another financial institution not being able to prove that your bank account is what it is.
12:20 p.m.
Conservative
Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON
On the topic of cyber-security as well, and specifically collaboration, we have Canada, the U.S., the Five Eyes. We also have the NATO alliance. Should there be more collaboration and sharing of notice of incursions across that entity as opposed to just the Five Eyes, more than there is right now?
12:25 p.m.
Managing Director, Sonecon, LLC, As an Individual
I think that sharing needs to increase. And let me say also that an important step occurred a couple of weeks ago when the Minister of National Defence of Canada, Secretary Hagel, the minister of defence of Mexico, and the head of the Mexican navy got together and agreed to collaborate on cyber-security.
Important opportunities exist on a North American basis as well as a bilateral and NATO basis to increase the sharing, to not only increase the understanding of the threats that are emerging but build collaborative approaches to protect against and build resilience for cyber-attacks.
12:25 p.m.
Conservative
12:25 p.m.
NDP
Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL
Dr. Stockton, I'd like to follow up a little bit on your discussion about the response of the American military to the Deepwater Horizon incident. I presume we're talking about the navy here and the coast guard, and I guess the exact opposite of the capability in the north. What does that say to the readiness to even have oil tankers travel through the north, for one? Could you describe a little bit more how the DOD and the U.S. military were involved in coordinating activity in the Gulf of Mexico with the Deepwater Horizon?
12:25 p.m.
Managing Director, Sonecon, LLC, As an Individual
Yes, it would be a pleasure.
Again, the Department of Defense was in support of the Department of Homeland Security, which had primary responsibility for the Deepwater Horizon response, and the Department of Energy, and other federal departments. But only the Department of the Navy had the large-scale assets for the skimmer boats, for example, to suck up the water off the surface of the ocean. Only the Department of Defense had those assets. The coast guard was also very important. The Department of Defense provided helicopters, transportation, all of these assets that were readily available in the Gulf of Mexico.
Now imagine what it would be like trying to conduct those operations in the Beaufort, how much more difficult it would be to support those assets and to get them where they were needed in a timely fashion. I believe that this is a challenge going forward, where partnering with industry, understanding which ships of potential concern are going to be transiting, now that more and more transits are occurring, especially carrying petroleum products.... This is an opportunity for dialogue in the Arctic Council, led now by Canada—the United States is soon to follow in a chair role—to discuss with all of the Arctic Council members how we can have a better understanding of ships that are transiting that may require special attention.
12:25 p.m.
NDP
Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL
In the absence of a response capability, are we not looking at a disaster waiting to happen? We can't wait until the disaster happens to find a solution. Doesn't that speak to putting off use of that passage for transit of environmentally dangerous fuels, for example? We can't just wait.
12:25 p.m.
Managing Director, Sonecon, LLC, As an Individual
The governments of Canada and the United States are not waiting. They're engaging in intensive dialogue about how to meet these challenges today. I wanted to feature them with you also because it's such an important opportunity for this collaborative approach to investment that we were discussing before. That is, if Canada and the United States can figure out who should invest in what kinds of disaster response infrastructure, we'll both be better off.
12:25 p.m.
NDP
Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL
I think there has been a start within the Arctic Council on search and rescue—at least a framework, but not a lot of detail.
12:25 p.m.
NDP
Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL
There should also be something with respect to what role the nations and their militaries might play in responding to an environmental disaster or environmental spill at best.
12:25 p.m.
Managing Director, Sonecon, LLC, As an Individual
Yes, and there is now an agreement in the Arctic Council on how to respond to a disaster of the sort we've been discussing. But building the actual response capabilities so we can remediate the spill when it happens, that's the challenge that remains.
12:25 p.m.
NDP
Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL
We note on the other side of the Arctic Circle the Russians have invested fairly heavily in infrastructure along their coastal route in terms of facilities, landing ports, supply ports, and capabilities. Would that speak to the kind of cooperation you're talking about and what facilities might exist in Alaska, say, versus in other parts of the eastern Arctic in which Canada participates? Is that what you're talking about?
12:30 p.m.
NDP
Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL
Let's talk about what you would build and what we would build, and what that would do for the needs of both countries.
12:30 p.m.
Managing Director, Sonecon, LLC, As an Individual
Exactly. That would be a very sensible approach. Let's agree on the nature of the challenge and what it's really going to take to build preparedness for the risk that an oil spill will occur.
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
James Bezan Conservative Selkirk—Interlake, MB
Dr. Stockton, you're talking quite a bit about infrastructure, mainly from the standpoint of energy and having more of a collaborative approach.
Are you suggesting to do this through new mechanisms, or are you thinking of doing it through the PJBD or through NORAD? Exactly what approach are you recommending?
12:30 p.m.
Managing Director, Sonecon, LLC, As an Individual
I think the institutional framework that we need is exactly what we have today. I'm not advocating for the creation of new organizations, but the repurposing of the Permanent Joint Board on Defence towards these emerging challenges has been enormously helpful. I would say that's also true of the mutual assistance agreements that already exist between utilities in Canada and the United States. State by state, province by province, there are strong collaborative relationships that already exist, but what we need to do now is scale these relationships up in a binational framework and really figure out which kinds of capabilities are going to be most necessary for investment, given the rise of non-traditional hazards.