Evidence of meeting #41 for National Defence in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was uavs.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:05 p.m.
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, ING Robotic Aviation
They're made with parts from all over the world.
5:05 p.m.
President, Zariba Security Corporation
As an example, there's a German machine called a micro drone. It's a small machine. The Iranians just put out a big press release about how they developed their own small drone. It was a photograph from the micro drone website, so I don't know if they're actually buying microdonts, or just copying them. But as Mr. Glenn said, the electronics are sourced from pretty much the same place.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
Chungsen Leung Conservative Willowdale, ON
With a concept like this we could all put these things to civilian and commercial use, it would be wonderful, but unfortunately, that's not the way the world is going.
5:05 p.m.
NDP
The Vice-Chair NDP Jack Harris
Thank you.
The final questioner in this round is Ms. Murray for five minutes.
December 2nd, 2014 / 5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Joyce Murray Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC
Thanks so much.
I'm just really mesmerized by your comments about where we're going in the future with these technologies. They are already completely available if we were to avail ourselves of them for military.... If we were to be doing surveillance of our vast ocean area, what might that mean for some of the big, expensive equipment replacement projects that are planned? Should there be a future government that's a different one from the current government, are we going to be faced with...? For example, fixed-wing search and rescue, it was a big priority starting in 2003. In 2013, it's still a big priority, and an urgent one according to the Auditor General. Oh, I forgot, it's all the fault of the previous Liberal government. So in the nine years, nothing has progressed under this government, but are we not going to need as many fixed-wing search and rescue vehicles if the search can be done by drones?
I guess the other obvious one is, if we are really patrolling through aviation robotics, are we then going to find that the need for Arctic offshore patrol ships to patrol vast areas of our Arctic Sea...? Again, it's a project that has been delayed and delayed and delayed, and the first one may not be available until four years from now. But if the last nine years continue, it might be longer than that. Are we going to find that these are obsolete by the time we actually have them coming off the assembly lines?
What you're suggesting is a lot cheaper. That's expensive equipment. Are we going to need both, or is it going to replace some of these others?
5:05 p.m.
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, ING Robotic Aviation
I think you start by looking at what you have to do. The northern bit of Canada is 40% of Canada, so it's huge. We have the second biggest country in the world. In no way have we ever had the resources to effectively patrol it or do search and rescue. Whatever assets are provided by whatever government will, by enabling better search, be more effective in the execution of their duties.
It's about better information. Some of it is satellite-based; much of it, I'm saying, can be done locally, out to hundreds of kilometres from a particular base. By having multiple ones, now you have a system that provides accurate and timely information to those commanders who need to get things done.
I don't really care how they do it, but blisters on the side of an aircraft was very World War II.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Joyce Murray Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC
Well, this certainly poses challenges, but it also could mean big cost savings down the road.
Using swarms of drones and the kind of “scene understanding” intelligence that they provide is already under way. From what I know the U.S. are doing field experiments on what they're calling “course of action” analysis. That's already out there; it's already doable.
We could be using this in Iraq, or we could be using it in Ukraine, for example, to assist in identifying what is going on. Is that correct?
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
Joyce Murray Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC
Yes. So this isn't really in the future; it's here. We're just—
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
Joyce Murray Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC
—somehow a few decades behind, in terms of our use of equipment.
Are there ways in which we could be using that kind of “course of action” analysis with drones here for domestic protection, security, and defence, or is that more an overseas...?
5:10 p.m.
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, ING Robotic Aviation
It's all about the information. You make decisions on the information you have. Every military commander is trained to make decisions under stress and with insufficient information. What changes is information that you think you need in a timely fashion, and no one is in harm's way to get it.
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
Joyce Murray Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC
My understanding of this whole thing of armed drones, such as the Predators, is that they are more precise than the CF-18s—they can target individuals—but that when there are no ground troops, there is not necessarily good information; there is mis-targeting, and there can be civilian deaths; that wherever we don't have ground troops, it's especially useful to have the unarmed drones providing intelligence; and that the Predator-type drones are a big liability in terms of humanitarian and political costs when they mis-target.
5:10 p.m.
NDP
The Vice-Chair NDP Jack Harris
Can you give a short answer to that? I think we used up most of the time with the question. Give us a short answer, if that's possible.
5:10 p.m.
President, Zariba Security Corporation
I think the case may be the opposite. If you can sit over a target for eight hours watching it calmly before you drop, you won't end up with something such as we had at Tarnak Farms. There, we had soldiers out on a rifle range shooting. A pilot was flying by and saw the shooting thousands of feet below him and decided that he was going to roll in in self-defence, and we ended up with a huge disaster. That wouldn't have happened with a drone. It's always a balance.
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
Joyce Murray Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC
It would be better, I guess, than the fighter jets, but they still make mistakes.
5:10 p.m.
NDP
The Vice-Chair NDP Jack Harris
Thank you very much.
Thank you both for coming.
We're at an end to the questioning, but they say the chair has a slight prerogative to ask a question or two at the end.
I'm very excited, I have to say, Mr. Glenn, by your representations about the possibility of having stationed drones or robotic aircraft in communities in the north in particular. I'm thinking of a young man named Burton Winters, who at 14 years of age died off the coast of Makkovik. We know the response time and how long it takes to get from Trenton to Resolute Bay or from Gander or Greenwood to Labrador.
I'm assuming that you find it a very practical project to have one of your responders or other aircraft stationed in communities and that the Rangers we have now can be trained to operate and use these and collect information. Is that doable?
5:10 p.m.
NDP
The Vice-Chair NDP Jack Harris
I'm also looking at your website, and I see “Meet RESPONDER” and “Great Information Comes From Great Tools”. It says “Buy Now”. I press on the button and I don't get a price; they want my name and email and a message.
5:10 p.m.
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, ING Robotic Aviation
That's exactly right.
5:10 p.m.
Voices
Oh, oh!