Evidence of meeting #5 for National Defence in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was therapists.
A recording is available from Parliament.
10:20 a.m.
NDP
Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL
Mr. Gilmour or Mr. Dawdy, I'm interested in your program, but I'm also curious that there doesn't seem to be much pick-up or take-up.
What should we recommend? Should this be on the menu of resources available to soldiers who are ill or injured and could benefit from this? Should that be part of what the CF offers to soldiers? Is that where it's lacking?
10:25 a.m.
Director, Calabogie Adaptive Snowsports, National Capital Division, Canadian Association for Disabled Skiing
Exactly.
10:25 a.m.
Operations Director, Calabogie Adaptive Snowsports, National Capital Division, Canadian Association for Disabled Skiing
Can I just interject—
10:25 a.m.
NDP
Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL
It seems to me to be odd that you only have 10 or 12 people, and you offer something that Mr. Opitz says certainly appeals to him, and I'm sure it would appeal to a lot of soldiers who are physically fit and active individuals who might benefit.
10:25 a.m.
Director, Calabogie Adaptive Snowsports, National Capital Division, Canadian Association for Disabled Skiing
We've been told that the local catchment area is 450 potential participants, and yet based on our statistics, we have to fight hard to get 8, 10, 12 people out. So where are the rest of them?
Bob, did you want to add to that?
10:25 a.m.
Operations Director, Calabogie Adaptive Snowsports, National Capital Division, Canadian Association for Disabled Skiing
I just wanted to add that when we first started this, when I came back from Colorado a number of years ago and I wanted to start this whole program, we talked about a national event, like we do in Snowmass, Colorado every year. We've done it for the last 28 years. We were told that Canada is too big; we would have to run regional programs. So we ran them in the east, we ran them in Quebec, we ran them in Ontario, and we ran them out west. And this year, Soldier On has decided that because of resources and money, they can only run one in western Canada, on Vancouver Island.
So we're looking at it and saying, okay, they're trying to put together 40 people for Vancouver Island, and we're saying, well, we're in the east. The ones we're missing...that's where we run our program. We try to catch up to them.
10:25 a.m.
NDP
Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL
Okay, thank you.
Ms. Steggles, I have one further question in regard to case management. I'm assuming the case manager of OT would probably think this is not a bad idea for disabled skiing, potentially.
But on the case management system, do you know if the Canadian Armed Forces use that as part of their rehabilitation? I know they do in workers' compensation. For example, you would have a case manager who would coordinate health professionals of various sorts and the needs of a client.
Do the Canadian Forces do that with someone who is a returning soldier—appoint a case manager? Or is it done through the chain of command and sent off to a psychiatrist one day, or whatever the individual soldier seeks out? Is that case management system in use, to your knowledge? And would occupational therapists be able to play that role?
10:25 a.m.
Professional Affairs Executive, Canadian Association of Occupational Therapists
It's a very good question and I can't give you an answer. I'm sorry, I don't know whether that role is in place in the military, but there certainly is precedent for occupational therapists being case managers. Here in Ontario, for example, the community care access centres use occupational therapists frequently as case managers to coordinate which services an individual might need.
10:25 a.m.
Conservative
Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
When you're trying to make contact with soldiers who would benefit from this, in the past have you gone through the JPSU, and did they send out a blast email? How has it been done successfully in the past?
10:25 a.m.
Operations Director, Calabogie Adaptive Snowsports, National Capital Division, Canadian Association for Disabled Skiing
It's basically just by word of mouth. I'm trying to even find the right people in JPSU to be able to put it forward. We do have a number of names this year from JPSU, and we're certainly going to give them the information that's available. It's just more of the knowledge getting out there to the people to let them know that this is available, and it just seems to stop at the front door.
10:25 a.m.
Conservative
Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON
So in addition to helping soldiers and veterans who are amputees, do you help any other members of society?
10:25 a.m.
Operations Director, Calabogie Adaptive Snowsports, National Capital Division, Canadian Association for Disabled Skiing
We have run an adaptive ski school in Calabogie for the past 10 years. We have 40 participants. We have 80 volunteers who basically work with.... It's an eight-week program, and we bring children from age 3, 4, 5, whatever, to teach them the same thing. What we're teaching here is not the skiing; it's the self-esteem we're teaching. It doesn't matter whether it's a 10-year-old or a 40-year-old soldier, if you can build that self-esteem and make them feel good about themselves, and if they can do this, what else can they do in life? They feel good about themselves. That's what we do there.
We also do a community living program. We used to shut in all the people in the 1950s who were different—Down's syndrome, cerebral palsy, muscular dystrophy, whatever it was. What did we do? We put them in an institution and closed the door.
For the last nine years now, in Renfrew and Arnprior, we have brought about 30 of these people out for a special day the first Monday of every February. We bring them out and basically show them a good day. They ski, they get assist ski and do that, and we have a banquet for them at lunchtime. We make them feel good, because when they all leave there, they are all smiling.
The Soldier On program is one, the community living is one, and then the regular program we run is one.
10:30 a.m.
Conservative
Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON
Has this made a difference in school activity participation? Sometimes a gym class will go to the ski hill to learn a new skill.
10:30 a.m.
Operations Director, Calabogie Adaptive Snowsports, National Capital Division, Canadian Association for Disabled Skiing
I just did a presentation to all of the eastern Ontario schools for special ed, and basically it's exactly what you say. But we encourage all the schools to do it, because we have the facility. We just finished building—thank you to the federal government for the accessibility grant—a $350,000 facility to assist.
When the schools come now, they bring all the children, they're in wheelchairs or whatever, and they all partake together. For the other kids, it actually helps them all fit in, because they think it's just wonderful that these kids can come up and take part and they can ski. For a lot of them who walk through the schools with their passes on, with crutches or if they have cerebral palsy, other kids will ask them how they can ski when they can't even walk. And they say, “Come on, I'll show you.” That's the kind of self-esteem that we want to have.
The offset in peer groups at schools, and in any relationship, is once you bring that self-esteem up, that person becomes that much more productive in society. If we can get them at a young age and help their self-esteem as they grow, it's even better.
10:30 a.m.
Conservative
Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON
Now back to soldiers and veterans: in the adaptive ski program, can you give us any examples of how having these individuals in the program really made a difference in their lives?
10:30 a.m.
Operations Director, Calabogie Adaptive Snowsports, National Capital Division, Canadian Association for Disabled Skiing
I have one, and I think you guys will probably all remember it.
Two years ago we had our winter sports clinic here, and we had one fellow who was extremely struck with PTSD. The whole family was falling apart. I remember his wife came to us and said, “You know, this is the first week I've seen my husband smile since he's come home.” They just sort of bonded together because they were able to have that whole week to just talk and feel, and also to talk with other PTSD victims too. It just made a world of difference to them. Unfortunately, that gentleman was hit by a bus outside of Petawawa—and he was making it; he was really getting it. But all of a sudden he has an accident and that's what happened.
10:30 a.m.
Conservative
Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON
How does your program help toward the overall recovery?
10:30 a.m.
Operations Director, Calabogie Adaptive Snowsports, National Capital Division, Canadian Association for Disabled Skiing
In the United States we call it “miracles on a mountainside”, and we can call it that here in Canada, too, because we have good mountains. It's just the chemistry that works. They're concentrating so much on trying to learn a new skill, and basically a lot of the stuff that's on the outside, even for the PTSD guys.... We're not experts on PTSD, but when we had these guys here, it was a matter of just working with them and helping them.
At one point I said, “Okay, we have the skis, we have this, and now we're going to go down and get our helmets.” And this one fellow said to me, “Um, I don't wear helmets, because a helmet—boom—I'm back there again.” So hey, we're going to wear a toque and have fun.
10:30 a.m.
Liberal
Joyce Murray Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Ferdinand, you talked about
shortcomings in the support provided to the families of armed forces members facing mental health difficulties.
The ombudsman also talked about military families and the stresses of their own they undergo, especially in a changing social environment, where it's no longer standard for a partner to stay at home with the children. It's standard to have two working parents creating careers. There are stresses in terms of the absences of one partner and single parenting, frequent relocations the family may have no choice in, and the elevated risk of the serving partner. Those stresses can create problems for the non-serving partner. Those stresses can break up marriages or can cause the serving member to leave specifically for that reason, which then costs the armed forces, of course, as they are trained personnel.
Do you see a level of support that is adequate for that component of stress and really a need for mental support?
Is that a shortcoming you have noticed too?
10:35 a.m.
National Director, Public Policy, Canadian Mental Health Association
I think we can do better. The Surgeon General recognizes that there are mental health, physical health, and psycho-social dimensions to the mental health problems or illnesses that members of the forces face as well as their families. I think the strategy also recognizes very clearly that.... The report actually says very bluntly that they support the establishment of community mental health services, and then there's a caveat: within constitutional or jurisdictional limitations. There's that little piece that's added to the end of it.
The reason why I mentioned that it was sort of a wish when I read it is because, on the one hand, it's nice to say, okay, here are the needs and we understand the needs—and I think you've just articulated very well what those needs are around the family. We know what role family members play in the recovery of individuals. The question is, to what extent are those conversations happening, the collaboration that is needed? Is it between the federal government and the civilian services or health professionals? What is going on there that would make the strategy sing in terms of reaching people who might be, quite frankly, falling between the cracks?
10:35 a.m.
Liberal
Joyce Murray Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC
Do you see this being a reformulation of resources that are already out there, or do you think there actually needs to be more money put into the mental health support for the injured and their families?
10:35 a.m.
National Director, Public Policy, Canadian Mental Health Association
The discussion has to take place. I think at a very minimum the discussion needs to take place so that we can understand, again, whether or not population need is being met with the resources we have or we might learn we don't have. I'm simply unaware of whether or not that type of discussion is taking place. I think it's a very good suggestion to at least start that discussion, because we might learn that the resources exist in Toronto but they don't exist in Podunk.
