Evidence of meeting #101 for National Defence in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was office.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:45 p.m.
Privacy Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
I will not minimize the impact of a public ruling, a public recommendation or the role of committees and so on. However, I don't have the ability to issue a binding order.
May 1st, 2024 / 5:45 p.m.
Conservative
James Bezan Conservative Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB
Okay. That's one of the recommendations we should be looking at.
The other part of that is this: You mentioned people wanting to get access to their own records for their own needs at the Canadian Armed Forces or Department of National Defence, and having to go to court.
Do you think it's fair for one person to have to take on the entire Department of National Defence?
5:45 p.m.
Privacy Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
Well, I think a more efficient and accessible system is one where you can have a regulator issue an order. That order is then binding. Again, I don't—
5:45 p.m.
Conservative
5:45 p.m.
Privacy Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
We don't have that right now.
Also, having the possibility of an order makes it more likely, in my view, that you're going to get early resolution on the matter without having to go through the process.
5:45 p.m.
Conservative
James Bezan Conservative Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB
We've heard from multiple witnesses already, including the ombudsman, the former ombudsman Gary Walbourne, Mr. White and Mr. Drapeau. There is a culture of over-classification within the Canadian Armed Forces and Department of National Defence.
Do you think that's done to intentionally hide records from their own members and veterans?
5:50 p.m.
Privacy Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
I think the legislation provides certain exceptions for disclosure, either under my legislation—the Privacy Act—or the Access to Information Act. Departments have leeway with that. There are some valid public interest reasons to prevent disclosure under legislation, but recourse exists to challenge those.
5:50 p.m.
Conservative
James Bezan Conservative Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB
I'll give the rest of my time to Mrs. Gallant.
5:50 p.m.
Conservative
Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON
How often are military personnel system records audited for unauthorized searches?
5:50 p.m.
Privacy Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
I have statistics of the complaints we receive at my office. We receive complaints directly from Canadians. I've indicated that, I think, in the last five years, we've received 300 complaints.
5:50 p.m.
Conservative
Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON
All right.
What is the privacy policy with respect to military personnel health records and access to those records by VAC?
5:50 p.m.
Privacy Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
Regarding access by VAC, there is some exchange of information between the two institutions in terms of those types of records. We have been engaged. We've been consulted on that. I understand we've received some PIAs, privacy impact assessments, on that.
5:50 p.m.
Conservative
Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON
Troops returning from a deployment on commercial aircraft have had to complete the ArriveCAN app. We know the disclosure allows the app to share information to contractors working for Public Health, Services Canada, provincial, territorial or municipal...and may be used for program evaluation and other organizations.
Do we know whether or not any of our troops' personal or health information has been shared with commercial companies, state-owned enterprises or anyone at all outside our government?
5:50 p.m.
Privacy Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
We are currently investigating the ArriveCAN app following complaints, so I won't be able to speak further on that, as this is ongoing.
5:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal John McKay
Thank you, Mrs. Gallant.
Ms. Lambropoulos, you have the final four minutes.
5:50 p.m.
Liberal
Emmanuella Lambropoulos Liberal Saint-Laurent, QC
Thank you, Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Dufresne, for being here with us today.
I'm wondering if you could tell us, based on the complaints you've received and the fact that some cases take a very long time to get a response or be dealt with, what you think would make the process more user-friendly. What is it that you think would help facilitate things or make it more accessible to people?
5:50 p.m.
Privacy Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
I think that the resources and efforts have to be put into making the system as user-friendly as possible. There are a number of modernization recommendations that need to happen in terms of making the principles of the system more up to date. An order-making power is one. A mandatory privacy impact assessment is another. There are some definitions, perhaps, that need to be updated as well.
Speaking for the privacy purview, one thing I've been highlighting since I started in this role is the need to treat privacy as a fundamental right, giving it that priority and making sure these matters are seen for what they are. These are individuals looking to have fundamentally important information about themselves. We need to make sure the system is accessible.
5:50 p.m.
Liberal
Emmanuella Lambropoulos Liberal Saint-Laurent, QC
Do you find that the way the current system works is easy to understand for all users?
5:50 p.m.
Privacy Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
I think we can make it easier to understand and faster. We are seeing that in terms of the statistics, so that's something we're working towards.
5:50 p.m.
Liberal
Emmanuella Lambropoulos Liberal Saint-Laurent, QC
How do you measure success in your work? What do you think could be done to improve? What shortcomings are there and how can we improve them, in general?
5:50 p.m.
Privacy Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
We're measuring success by looking at the statistics and trends and by trying to see whether the number of complaints is increasing and being resolved quickly. Are the timelines decreasing? Is the collaboration we see, the exchanges with the departments...? When we're thinking about privacy impact assessments, are those being done before new programs are started? Are we being kept informed and consulted? All of those things are elements of what we would look at in terms of success.
5:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal John McKay
Thank you.
On behalf of the committee I want to thank you both. Both of you are very sophisticated witnesses and know the time constraints that we have on committee, but thank you for your testimony. I appreciate your appearing under the circumstances.
Colleagues, before we gavel to an end, may I have Mr. Bezan move the subcommittee report? Ms. Lalonde will second it. Is there any debate?
(Motion agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])
I have Mr. Bezan moving $16,500 for the defence committee report. It has been moved and seconded. Is there any debate?
(Motion agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])
Finally, please indicate to me whether you will be available for meeting with the German defence minister on Friday, May 10, at 12:15 p.m. I have one Conservative, one NDP, one....
With that, I thank you. I appreciate your co-operation.