National Defence Committee on Jan. 31st, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

I call the meeting back to order.

I am assuming Mr. Bezan wishes to speak to his motion.

Mr. Bezan, go ahead, please.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I will move the motion. Do you wish me to read it into the record? It has been circulated and it is quite lengthy.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

It's in both official languages, so I don't think so.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

We're good to go.

I know work on this has already been started. There's a similar study at the government operations committee, but I believe we also need to find out exactly what McKinsey consultants have been doing on the defence file and how many millions of dollars have been spent on procuring their services, often through single-source contracts.

This is an organization that has been charged with corruption in South Africa and that has been tied to the opioid crisis. There has been scathing report after scathing report. Of course, Mr. Barton, as our former ambassador to China, is a close personal friend of the Prime Minister, and because of these connections, McKinsey now has an open-ended contract that was signed in 2019 and goes right until 2100. We're talking about an 81-year open contract that could really impact not just taxpayers but the operations of the Government of Canada.

I think it is important that we get as much documentation as possible. This isn't about opening up a study at this point in time. This is about looking at the documents as to what contracts have been given, how this could possibly impact national security, what they've been doing on national defence and how those dollars could possibly be better spent on supporting the Canadian Armed Forces.

In the interest of time, I'll leave my comments at that.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

I recognize Ms. Mathyssen.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'll support this motion, but I would like to make what I hope are friendly amendments to it.

In paragraph a., after “and the Canadian Armed Forces”, add “and all special operating agencies therein”.

In paragraph b., it's exactly the same thing, “and all special operating agencies therein”, again after “and the Canadian Armed Forces”, four lines down.

Then I have another amendment I would like to make.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Okay.

Do you want to move both at the same time, or do you want to have a debate on what is essentially the same motion?

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

I could do both at the same time, I think.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Okay.

Obviously we have to debate your amendment first, so we need the wording so it will be properly in front of the committee.

Could you tell the clerk that so that we can all have an understanding of what you just said?

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Okay.

[The Clerk of the Committee, Mr. Andrew Wilson]

I just want to make sure I have the correct wording.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Okay. Can you read it back so that she—

[The Clerk]

What I am saying is that I missed it.

It's “and all...”?

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

It's “and all special operating agencies therein”.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

You have the line properly?

[The Clerk]

Yes, and it's the same in paragraph b. Okay.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Are there any other comments you wish to make, at least on that particular amendment?

Is there any debate on the amendment?

(Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

You have a second amendment.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

In addition to reference to McKinsey & Company, I would like to add an investigation or the request also for Deloitte, PricewaterhouseCoopers, Accenture, KPMG and Ernst & Young. That's it.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

That's PricewaterhouseCoopers, Deloitte, Ernst & Young and who else...?

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

It's Accenture and KPMG.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Okay.

Do you have that?

[The Clerk]

Yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

That amendment is properly before us.

Is there debate?

[An hon. member]

Mr. Chair, I would just like an opportunity to understand the implications of these amendments.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

I am wondering if we can suspend for a few minutes.

I suppose we can suspend for a minute or two to think about what it is we're being asked to do here.

Is there any objection to a suspension for a minute or two? We are suspended.