Evidence of meeting #70 for National Defence in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was industry.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:50 p.m.
Conservative
5:50 p.m.
As an Individual
I concede your point about criticism, but I hope you'll concede mine, which is that whether there is criticism or not it's embedded in the culture. People are simply afraid of it, but I take your point.
One thing that used to drive me to distraction when I was in defence was the number of change orders across the board. I blame myself and my civilian colleagues for not pushing back harder on the generals and the admirals. They always want a gold-plated solution to their problems because it protects lives, but I think even within the military, there's sort of a gentleman's and gentlewoman's understanding that, you know, if the air force wants this, the army is not going to criticize it. It's very difficult to get effective review as you work your way up the system. One of the few things that survived my time there was a committee that's now chaired, or was chaired, by Admiral Murray, which is supposed to review these kinds of things before they leave the department.
A lot of it is a desire to do good, I think, but there honestly is a lack of self-discipline on both the departmental side and the military side, in my view.
5:55 p.m.
Liberal
Emmanuella Lambropoulos Liberal Saint-Laurent, QC
Thank you, Chair. I'll be splitting my time with Mr. Collins.
Mr. Foster, I'd like to ask you a couple of questions.
You've mentioned that it's better to invest in areas that are already really developed, rather than trying to create competition where it doesn't already exist within these industries. I'd like you to maybe go over which Canadian industries excel in this area and where our capacity is more limited relative to our partners and allies.
Perhaps you could then also answer the question I had asked Mr. Fadden. What steps can Canada take in order to better balance the need for efficient job procurement with the goal of actually increasing domestic capacity?
5:55 p.m.
Vice President, L3Harris Technologies Canada, As an Individual
It could take a long time to answer all that.
Right off the top, Canada invested in R and D in WESCAM and invested in our Dorval division, which was CAE at the time, to develop the integrated platform management system. Those two systems are globally accepted as world-leader capabilities. It was that research and development co-operation with industry, as opposed to ITB value proposition investment thinking, that made those capabilities. If you look at CAE, they are world class in training. We should continue to develop that kind of capability. We have other industries—Bluedrop Training, for example—that are very good at that. We have great capabilities in cyber-technology.
I've talked to the president of NRC. If we were to collectively get industry to look at and map out where Canada really is the leading expert in capabilities, and invest, really invest, in those capabilities, we could be competitive in the future.
5:55 p.m.
Liberal
Chad Collins Liberal Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON
Mr. Fadden, the PBO appeared before the committee and talked about the number of hands that are on the steering wheel as a project makes its way through the procurement process. They emphasized having one point of contact for efficiency and accountability purposes. In light of the fact that you were deep in the weeds on many of these big projects as they made their way through the system, what are your thoughts on that?
5:55 p.m.
As an Individual
At a theoretical level I think they're correct, but in a practical sense, as long as you have a variety of policy objectives both internal and external to the department, it's very difficult to have one focal point. If you want somebody within the Canadian Armed Forces to be responsible for a particular acquisition, that's great, but he or she can't be responsible for the regional components, for the technological components or for the innovation components.
I think it's desirable and that we need to improve what we're doing, but to all of a sudden say we have this one person responsible for everything in the current small-p political environment—by which I don't mean “partisan”, I just mean “political”—I don't think it's going to work.
5:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal John McKay
Colleagues, you've been so co-operative and disciplined that we actually have two minutes left.
I want to pick up on General Foster's comment about working with the U.S. and our colleagues there. I am interested in your level of concern about Canada's domestic status, being treated as a domestic supplier for the purposes of supplying military equipment. Do you think we are at risk there?
5:55 p.m.
Vice President, L3Harris Technologies Canada, As an Individual
I think the U.S. has better capability. It's recognized, if that's what you're getting at, in terms of our own domestic industry providing that kind of capability. I think there's a balance. If Canada—
5:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal John McKay
No, what I'm getting at is how we are treated as a foreign entity by the U.S. defence industry, and in particular by the Government of the United States. Do you think there's any risk we may lose that status, which I think we've had since 1954, of being treated as a domestic supplier?
5:55 p.m.
Vice President, L3Harris Technologies Canada, As an Individual
No, I don't think that's a risk, but I think there's a better opportunity to work with the U.S. and increase our own domestic business capabilities by being a better supplier in that value chain. That's a government-to-government discussion that says, “We're going to spend this much money on over-the-horizon radar and we want to align with the solution you choose, but we want you to invest, with that large solution the U.S. companies are going to bring, in the Canadian supply chain.”
6 p.m.
Conservative
James Bezan Conservative Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB
On a point of order, Mr. Chair, I just want to let everybody know that today is Air Force Day on the Hill, and that everybody should muster up over in Valour, room 228.
6 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal John McKay
I don't know whether that's a point of order, but it certainly is an announcement.
I want to thank each and every one of you for your co-operation. We're in strange waters here. Colleagues, stay tuned as to whether Thursday's meeting will happen. We're hoping it will.
With that, the meeting is adjourned.