National Defence Committee on Feb. 5th, 2024

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

I have reports of lice-infested mattresses in barracks, and you mentioned the black mould. How long does it usually take to get that fixed as opposed to just painting it over, which has been the practice?

[Gregory A. Lick]

Well, I can't say how long it takes to actually fix it. What I will say is that in order to do all the maintenance required on the base, likely more resourcing will be needed.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Have you noticed a difference between contractors who were locally sourced and big companies that were sourced from out of province to come do the upgrades?

[Gregory A. Lick]

No, I wouldn't say that so much. The Canadian Forces Housing Agency hires contractors to get the work done in residential housing units, and in different bases and wings they've had problems getting the contractors during different times of the year. I think at this point in time it's starting to get better, but whether or not they're able to attract contractors depends on the economic environment at the time. Cold Lake is the perfect example. When the oil patch is up, they all go to the oil patch to do maintenance there. When the oil patch is down, they come back to help on the base.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Of the 8,500 units disposed of from 1996 to 2013, what number has been replaced or what number has been surpassed?

[Gregory A. Lick]

I couldn't answer that question in that level of detail. That's a good question for the Canadian Forces Housing Agency.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

What amount has been set aside, if any—that you're aware of—for infrastructure costs related to the required electrical capacity upgrades to replace the present furnaces with heat pumps? I understand that most living quarters have 100 amps and the heat pumps require around 200 amps.

[Gregory A. Lick]

That was an initiative they showed us in Greenwood. They were replacing some of the heating systems with heat pumps, but it is an issue of electrical capacity. I'm an engineer by trade, so I understand it. Certainly it will depend on the individual age of the electrical capacity in each of the houses. Again, it's a good question for the housing agency, which will have the details of that particular issue.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

With respect to the new electric vehicles that are being mandated, our fire chief told us the vehicles should be a certain distance from the structure to safeguard against the fires that happen spontaneously from time to time. To the best of your knowledge, have any provisions been made to make room for what is coming with the new vehicle requirements?

[Gregory A. Lick]

I'm not aware of the details of that other than what we saw at Greenwood, where there were some charging stations being implemented and installed. I'm not aware of the details of the distances between them.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Who's responsible for issuing the building permits? Do you know whether or not the barracks and PMQs have inspections at all?

[Gregory A. Lick]

Well, building permits for residential housing would be done by the community. As to those on base, that's another good question for the assistant deputy minister of IE.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Do you know how long on average it takes for the situations with mould or lice to be ameliorated? Have the soldiers told you directly that it's taking too long?

[Gregory A. Lick]

I don't know how long it takes per se, but they have told me it's taking too long.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Mrs. Gallant.

Mr. Fillmore, go ahead for five minutes.

[Andy Fillmore, Liberal, Halifax, NS]

Thank you very much, Chair.

Mr. Lick and Ms. Hynes, thank you very much for joining us today. It's much appreciated.

Mr. Lick, is it true that CAF limits rent for members living on base to 25% of their income?

[Gregory A. Lick]

Yes, it's 25% of their gross family income.

[Andy Fillmore, Liberal, Halifax, NS]

That means on-base rent increases would not result in rents that are higher than 25% of a member's income.

[Gregory A. Lick]

Yes. They do have a personal responsibility to demonstrate that income, and there's a process that goes along with it, but they have the ability to cap their rent at 25% of their gross family income.

[Andy Fillmore, Liberal, Halifax, NS]

Excellent. Thank you.

Is it true that it's the Treasury Board that recommends rent increases on base in accordance with the CPI as a matter of policy and not the Minister of National Defence?

[Gregory A. Lick]

It's my understanding—Robyn will correct me if I'm wrong—that it is a Treasury Board policy for residential housing on base. In this case, it's government housing. It is basically approved by the Minister of National Defence.

[Andy Fillmore, Liberal, Halifax, NS]

I'll go off base, then. Isn't it true that for members and their families who choose to live off base, salary increases that keep pace with inflation would be an important thing for rent affordability?

[Gregory A. Lick]

Yes, absolutely. The CFHD does mitigate some of that particular issue for members. We are talking more about junior members than senior members in that regard.

[Andy Fillmore, Liberal, Halifax, NS]

I'll make a comment, and then I'll continue on.

I'm going to assume that you would agree that when members of Parliament, especially members of this committee, have an opportunity to pass budget votes that would increase CAF members' salaries, they should do so. You don't have to respond to that.

I would say to my colleagues that it's alarming and puzzling, then, that our Conservative colleagues were whipped to vote against the CAF member salary increase in December 2023.

Moving off of that, Mr. Lick, I think it was your testimony earlier in this session that you do not know of any CAF members living in tents. Is that correct?

[Gregory A. Lick]

I don't personally. I don't think we've received any complaints in that regard, but Robyn can correct me or confirm that. It's hard for me to say whether they do or do not just because I haven't heard it.

I'll come back to my earlier point that there are other groups separate from me and my organization—whether that's the chaplaincy, the military family resource centres or different charitable organizations, such as Together We Stand—that do support members. They will have another part to that story that I think is important to hear.