National Defence Committee on Feb. 26th, 2024

[Gregory Lick]

Very simply, in certain processes, like a board of inquiry that the military sometimes carries out, we have been asked to provide information on constituents we may have investigated or helped with an investigation. We have not provided that information in the past, but I'm not legally protected from having to provide that information.

As I said, I will fight it in court if I have to, but that should not be the case. Yes, it might have helped the board of inquiry, but the principle of confidentiality that we adhere to is so critical for people's confidence to come forward that I will protect it no matter what cost.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you. That's helpful.

Mrs. Gallant, you have five minutes, please.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Thank you.

First I'll go to Mr. Joshi. Can your department provide a response to a file within 45 days?

[Col Vihar Joshi]

No, we're not able to do that.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

What would the average time be?

[Col Vihar Joshi]

The average time from receipt to dispatch of a file in the last year was about 16 months.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Missing information had been mentioned. Do you think this is intentional?

[Col Vihar Joshi]

No, I don't think it's intentional. In many cases, for example, it's a two-tiered process where an initial authority decision is made first. After that, if it goes to the final authority, it comes to us. In many cases the initial authorities do not get a decision out, so we don't get a file at all. We get the grievance with not a lot of background information. That is one area of cases where you have missing information.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Do you have timely access to a member's service number if it's not the person who is providing the grievance?

[Col Vihar Joshi]

I'm sorry. I'm not sure if I understand the question.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

If a grievance involves another member, how much time does it take for you to get the other member's service number?

[Col Vihar Joshi]

We wouldn't get the service number.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Okay.

Have there been any instances of reprisals from DND or CAF superiors when a service member requested an ATIP?

[Col Vihar Joshi]

We don't have any grievances of that nature. I have not seen grievances of that nature.

I can get back to the committee. We can look at it to see if we've had reprisal types of grievances for an ATIP. Our ATIP system is completely separate.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Are you aware of any situations where superiors went after members or enacted reprisals against members for bringing forth a grievance?

[Col Vihar Joshi]

There are certainly instances where grievers have put in grievances about that subject. They say they were aggrieved because they put in a grievance and now the chain of command is mistreating them.

We certainly do see grievances of that nature. They are not that common, but yes, we do see them.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

How should the service members be protected against reprisals?

[Col Vihar Joshi]

There are regulations in place in the Queen's regulations and orders. Members should not have to fear reprisal or any bad things happening to them for putting in a grievance. It's their statutory right to do so.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

What are some of the challenges that members of DND or CAF face when they want to blow the whistle or demonstrate wrongdoing?

[Col Vihar Joshi]

Just as with anybody else, there's the fear that the chain of command will take negative action against them in some way, shape or form.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Very early on when I got to Parliament, we had André Marin as the military ombudsman. He was very capable and successful in uncovering and getting to the bottom of soldiers being exposed to different chemicals and getting compensation for that. He seemed able to cut through, at that time.

Have laws or regulations changed since then to make your job even more difficult to get to the bottom of a situation or to get the information you need?

[Gregory Lick]

As I said in my opening remarks, when we're talking about individual investigations—when people come forward with a complaint or something—we are very successful in getting a resolution for them. I might have mentioned our statistic that we're 100% successful at this point in getting a resolution for them when we see unfairness in a process.

What I'm concerned with more than anything is the ability to have responses on our systemic investigations and, probably more importantly, to have action on our systemic investigations. That could involve any sort of circumstance, different constituents or whatever it might be. That is probably where my biggest concern is at this point in time.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Were there any instances where DND or CAF tried to interfere with your duties as an ombudsman, specifically in regard to complaints to DND or CAF superiors from subordinates?

[Gregory Lick]

In my experience—perhaps Robyn could supplement with her previous experience—I have not seen anything at this point that would suggest anything inappropriate in terms of interference in an individual complaint. Sometimes it takes a bit of time to get some information. Sometimes it might be classified. We generally find the CAF to be very co-operative when we ask for information.

I always say that when the investigators call, the people on the other end of the phone line sit up straighter. It's just the idea that they respond pretty well.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Mrs. Gallant.

Mr. Collins, you have five minutes, please.