I recognize Mr. Collins.
Evidence of meeting #97 for National Defence in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was families.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #97 for National Defence in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was families.
A recording is available from Parliament.
6 p.m.
Liberal
Chad Collins Liberal Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON
Thanks, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Chair, I too apologize to the witness. I certainly take what you say into consideration. You referenced it at the beginning of the meeting.
I apologize that we're in the situation we're in now, but we are, because the motion has been put.
That last speech was a little hard to listen to, because when it comes to commitment to Ukraine, it was unanimous up until about a year ago. Since then, of course, we've seen the party opposite abandon Ukraine.
You'll know, Mr. Chair, that there was a meeting in Toronto with the Ukrainian community. Some of the members opposite were in that meeting. The community talked about the lack of support they're receiving from the official opposition. Members from the Ukrainian diaspora talked about being used as political pawns, as a wedge issue, here in Parliament. The Leader of the Opposition came to Hamilton as part of his “make Canada great again” tour, and he referenced all the support that the government provided and focused on this one issue, saying that we haven't delivered.
I have the list in front of me of everything that has been committed and has been delivered, and almost every single item on this page on the government's website, which is very current.... If you wanted to access it at any point in time today, from artillery to field equipment to clothing, infrastructure, individual meal packs, maritime items, tanks.... The list goes on, and we've delivered on almost every single thing that we've put through in our consecutive budgets over the last two years since this conflict has started.
Yes, we do have this outstanding issue, but I think it flies in the face of the narrative, the picture, that the member opposite tried to create here, which is that the government is not committed. If there is a party in Parliament that is not committed to Ukraine.... Of all the days to bring it up, we received word today that the free trade agreement they voted against was approved today. They're just without shame.
I couldn't believe it when the Leader of the Opposition showed up in Hamilton to speak to the Ukrainian community after he has let them down. That extends to other communities, not just in Hamilton but around the country. The Polish community is very concerned about what happens next and about the lack of support we're seeing from the official opposition. It is also in addition to the nonsense that we see south of the border in terms of what the Republicans are doing, which is exactly what our friends across the table here are doing as well. They're trying to wait this out. They're hoping that Trump does their dirty work and that they won't be forced to continue to oppose assistance to Ukraine.
It's hard to listen to that in this setting. It's hard to listen to it in Parliament when they talk about their support, when in fact we know it's quite the opposite with the votes. It's all on the public record. That's the beauty of the system we have here.
Also, the Ukrainian community is onto them, and the fact that when they had that meeting in Toronto they had to call them out in a private meeting that ended up being recorded, I think is proof in terms of where the Ukrainian community is. I thank the other parties for their continued support, because it should be unanimous, and unfortunately it isn't.
To the motion, Mr. Chair, I think the last part of this, the “within 14 days”, is unreasonable. I would move an amendment to strike that, and I would also seek the committee's concurrence in looking at revising the first part of this motion in terms of getting an update on what we have approved in our budgets, what has been delivered and what is outstanding.
There may be something in addition to what Mr. Bezan has referenced here today in his motion that is outstanding, and I'd like to know what those other items are, but I think that telling one side of the story without the other as it relates to what we have invested in supporting Ukraine and highlighting here at the committee when they made their way overseas.... Have they been utilized? What's outstanding? Also, of course, we have our budget that is going to be released next week, so we can add to that list.
I'm not going to belabour the point, but I think that at a minimum we need to remove the 14 days, and I would seek to propose an amendment that is all-encompassing and shows everything that's on the table as it relates to support for Ukraine. Then we can have the debate when the ministercomes and talk about which parties are there for Ukraine and which ones are not.
6:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal John McKay
Just before I turn to Ms. Gallant, on the “within 14 days”, the deletion is clearly in order as an amendment, but the overall.... It has to be kind of framed, rather than just....
6:05 p.m.
Liberal
Chad Collins Liberal Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON
We'll deal with the 14 days and I'll come back with wording on the first part.
6:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal John McKay
There's an amendment on the floor at this point.
Mrs. Gallant has the floor.
April 10th, 2024 / 6:05 p.m.
Conservative
Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON
I wanted to speak in favour of the motion.
About two and a half weeks ago I was able to receive briefings, together with colleagues from the NATO Parliamentary Assembly. The meeting was in the Baltics.
At that time, we were advised that the observations of troop movements and other actions taken by Putin and Russia indicate that they are planning for a full-scale invasion past Ukraine into parts of Europe.
If that happens.... The other parts of Europe are NATO members. We're all well versed with article 5, which says that an attack on one is considered an attack on us all.
The point is that if we can get this materiel—these NASAMS and all the other things that we've promised but that may not have gotten to Ukraine—into their hands, they can fend them off in Ukraine.
If greater Europe becomes involved, that means our sons and daughters are going to be asked to go and fight. It's far better to keep the battle area constrained to where it is right now and give Ukraine what they need. That's why I am in favour of Mr. Bezan's motion.
6:05 p.m.
Liberal
Emmanuella Lambropoulos Liberal Saint-Laurent, QC
I had a point of order to let the witness go, but you already did that.
6:05 p.m.
Conservative
James Bezan Conservative Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB
First, Mr. Chair, I want to comment on your statement.
We could have had a meeting on Monday. We didn't have any witnesses. We could have dealt with all of these motions at that point in time. To go and blame those who are moving these motions from multiple parties today is.... You know, your job is to direct traffic; you're not here to chastise those of us who believe we have serious issues we should be talking about.
Usually, you only have a witness sit at the end of this table for one hour, not two hours. To only have one witness show up today is disappointing, to say the least, because we have serious studies that we want to do and we need to have substantive discussions with witnesses on this. To have only one witness here for two hours is not a good use of everyone's time, compared with how you usually manage a meeting.
As a Ukrainian, I take personal offence to Mr. Collins' comments. For him to get up on his soapbox and try to suggest that I don't support Ukraine or that Conservatives don't support Ukraine is playing right into the hands of Putin himself. I think Mr. Collins should measure the words he uses instead of being hyperpartisan all the time.
I can also say this: One thing the Liberals have delivered is detonators for Russian landmines. They delivered gas turbines for Russian pipelines, putting money into Putin's war machine. They've delivered avionics for Russian drones—Shahed kamikaze drones that are being used to kill Ukrainians today.
They've delivered all of those. Now I can tell you what they haven't delivered.
They haven't delivered the NASAMS, as I said, which was promised back on January 10.
On November 24, 2022, they promised 11,000 assault rifles and machine guns with nine million rounds of small arms ammunition. They weren't delivered.
On September 22, 2022, they promised 35 high-resolution drone cameras valued at $76 million. They're nowhere in sight.
On June 10, 2023, they promised 10,000 rounds of 105-millimetre artillery ammunition and 250 AIM-7 air defence missiles. They weren't delivered.
On September 22, 2023, they announced that Canada would expand its aid by adding 15 more Canadian armoured vehicles, worth about $408 million, from London, Ontario. I can tell you that GDLS and Armatec have no signed contracts to deliver those armoured vehicles.
There was 25 million dollars' worth of winter clothing promised back on October 11, and 2,000 female uniforms. They weren't delivered, and—guess what?—winter is over. I guess they don't need them now until next winter.
They also promised, on October 11, 76-millimetre naval ammunition, 277 1,000-pound aircraft bombs, 955 155-millimetre artillery smoke rounds, 2,000 mortar smoke rounds and 2,600 gas masks. These were all promised right after President Zelenskyy was here, but not delivered. Again, Minister Blair keeps talking about increasing the production of 155-millimetre artillery shells. We have not increased the production of howitzer shells in this country by one iota, and this war has been going on now for over two years.
I'm not surprised that Mr. Collins and the Liberals want to delay the report from the minister on where the NASAMS delivery is at. I'm sure department officials can give him an update in 14 minutes, not 14 days. Meanwhile, Ukraine sits and languishes under daily attacks by the Russian barbarians. For us to sit here and say that 14 days is too quick, especially knowing we're only here for this week and next week....
We know the minister cancelled appearing at committee for the supplementary estimates. I believe it is time for him to appear to explain to us why the NASAMS hasn't been delivered.
I'm more than happy to go through this litany of stuff that wasn't delivered, which right now represents over 60% of the value of promises made to Ukraine. They remain unfulfilled.
6:10 p.m.
Conservative
Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB
Mr. Bezan made the point I wanted to. I don't want to prolong this. I hope we can go to a vote.
I'll leave it at that.
6:10 p.m.
Liberal
Chad Collins Liberal Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON
We'll go with that one. I will have another one.
6:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal John McKay
It's to strike the 14 days.
Do you want a recorded vote?
(Amendment agreed to: yeas 7; nays 4 [See Minutes of Proceedings])
We'll go to the main motion.
Go ahead, Mr. Collins.
6:10 p.m.
Liberal
Chad Collins Liberal Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON
I would like to propose another amendment that comes back to the issue of being all-encompassing. I would replace the first part so that it would read, “Given that Canada has committed $4 billion in military assistance to Ukraine, that the committee receive a comprehensive update on all military support provided to Ukraine”, including the NASAMS issue that Mr. Bezan raised today.
That leaves it wide open for us to ask questions about what has, and what has not, been delivered. I move that amendment for the committee's consideration.
6:10 p.m.
Liberal
6:10 p.m.
Liberal
Chad Collins Liberal Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON
“Given that Canada has committed $4 billion in military assistance to Ukraine, that the committee receive a comprehensive update on all military support provided to Ukraine, including NASAMS.”
6:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal John McKay
Where does that fit in the substance of the motion? Where would you put that?
6:10 p.m.
Liberal
6:10 p.m.
Liberal
Chad Collins Liberal Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON
It would say “Given that”, so I'm keeping that. I would strike “in January 2023”, and I would keep “Canada”, and then I would remove the remaining part, so it would read as follows: “Given that Canada has committed $4 billion in military assistance to Ukraine, that the committee receive a comprehensive update on all military support provided to Ukraine, including NASAMS.”
That's it. Leave it at that.