Evidence of meeting #42 for Natural Resources in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was accident.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Dave McCauley  Director, Uranium and Radioactive Waste Division, Electricity Resources Branch, Department of Natural Resources
Jacques Hénault  Analyst, Nuclear Liability and Emergency Preparedness, Department of Natural Resources
Brenda MacKenzie  Senior Legislative Counsel, Advisory and Development Services Section, Department of Justice

3:45 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Yes, Chair. I'm being very cautious about not being repetitive and being very clear with what I'm speaking to, which is clause 15.

To answer Paule's question, I would like to make it clear that it is a Government of Canada document. It is a good question why such an important document, dated 2003, is available only in English. It is very strange. It is not the Government of Canada's normal way of doing things. That was one of the questions I wanted to ask today. First, they said that it was a completely open and public document. So the public should be able to have access to it. But a Government of Canada document written in one language only is clearly not public.

That was my next question. Reference was made to this document's being available to the public. It's a document that was prepared for CNSC, which is an organization that does all its work in both official languages, but it was prepared only in English and did not appear on any websites.

Chair, I'm focusing on this today because it's one of the critical pieces the government used to craft the legislation that's in front of committee. Why this wasn't presented to committee on the first day that we heard this bill, when we had government officials in front of us, is a little strange. Now we have it at essentially the eleventh hour, and we're in clause-by-clause consideration. It appears in only one language, which we also, out of respect to Madame Brunelle, find very irregular and not correct, yet the committee members are being asked to vote on these clauses with one of the most essential pieces of information appearing only now.

You suggested to me that I was being repetitive, but I'm trying to understand something. A document that the government itself commissioned made two recommendations; the government ignored both those recommendations. I'm trying to understand why. I have not yet received an answer as to why.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit

Continue with the question, Mr. Cullen.

3:50 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Thank you.

The folks come back and say that you must look at severe accidents. The government says no. Can you tell me why? You don't do the research and you don't anticipate...

Okay, here's the question: does the government not--

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK

I have a point of order.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit

Go head, Mr. Anderson.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK

The witness already gave him an answer to that question. He asked that about 10 minutes ago, and they gave him an explanation. I don't know if Mr. Cullen is trying to disrupt the committee, but he got a clear explanation. If he wasn't listening, he should have been, or maybe he should go back and check the transcripts. He's going over ground that he's already covered.

They explained to him what happened. I think he should quit. You can call it harassing the witnesses or staying on this one point.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit

Mr. Cullen, you are repeating a question you've asked before. You got a clear answer for it.

3:50 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Can you explain the answer I received, Chair? It was that the government chose not to have this study done. Why?

3:50 p.m.

An hon. member

It's not necessary for the chair to repeat the answer--

3:50 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

No, but the chair has told me I've received an answer, and I'd like to know what his interpretation of that answer is.

I'm being quite sincere about this. Mr. Anderson accused me of a few things that I've chosen not to respond to. I want to understand why the government chose not to look at severe nuclear accidents. Is that not a reasonable premise?

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit

Go ahead with the question, Mr. Cullen, but don't repeat and don't go around in circles. That's not acceptable.

3:50 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Does the government not anticipate severe nuclear accidents?

3:50 p.m.

Director, Uranium and Radioactive Waste Division, Electricity Resources Branch, Department of Natural Resources

Dave McCauley

Yes, I think the CNSC... I think you'd really have to speak to someone from the CNSC, but I think in their analysis and their safety analysis and their regulatory reviews they regulate to avoid severe nuclear accidents.

3:50 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

There's my question. So the reliance on the liability limit for economic losses is anticipated by the fact that the CNSC would simply not allow a severe nuclear accident to ever happen. Am I right?

3:50 p.m.

Director, Uranium and Radioactive Waste Division, Electricity Resources Branch, Department of Natural Resources

Dave McCauley

Yes. It is unforeseeable, so it would be inappropriate to set a limit on the operator based on something that is extremely unlikely. The legislation addresses any kind of eventuality. It's just that the liability limit of the operator was set, and then we did the study to evaluate the impact of a foreseeable incident and how it relates to....

That was basically the rationale.

3:50 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Understood.

Chair, I just want to be clear. You said there were other people in line waiting to ask questions. Those were not for points of order but for other things?

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit

For points of order, we interrupt questions.

3:50 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

So I'll yield the floor to allow others to ask questions.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit

Madame Brunelle, did you...?

3:50 p.m.

Bloc

Paule Brunelle Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC

No, thank you.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit

Oh, you were on a point of order? I apologize for not recognizing that right away. I didn't catch that.

Mr. Anderson.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK

Mine was a point of order.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit

Okay. Well, I guess that's what it was.

3:50 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

I will not stand for this time-wasting, Chair. This is unacceptable.

3:50 p.m.

Voices

Oh, oh!