Evidence of meeting #33 for Natural Resources in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was water.
A recording is available from Parliament.
11:35 a.m.
Senior Vice-President, Shale Division, North American Operations (NAO), Talisman Energy Inc.
Yes, I'll answer that.
Are you speaking specifically in British Columbia?
11:35 a.m.
Senior Vice-President, Shale Division, North American Operations (NAO), Talisman Energy Inc.
The law is that the crown owns the minerals and the surface owner does not have any right to the minerals.
11:35 a.m.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
One question that came up was this. I was in southern Alberta a while ago dealing with folks who were impacted by what's called coal bed methane, and I know there are different terms used for different extraction processes.
Are you required, as a company, to do a baseline study of the water quality prior to any drilling operations?
11:35 a.m.
Vice-President, Canadian Society for Unconventional Gas
In Alberta, in particular, and with respect to coal bed methane development, the Energy Resources Conservation Board, the oil and gas regulator, does require water well testing. There are specific geographic constraints--a lateral distance from the proposed well where water wells must be tested in advance of drilling and fracturing of the coal bed methane.
11:35 a.m.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Maybe I'll stay with you just for a second, sir.
Are you aware of any comprehensive national study of unconventional oil and gas energy going on right now in Canada?
11:35 a.m.
Conservative
11:35 a.m.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Mr. Chair, if I could just be specific, is the National Energy Board conducting such a study right now?
11:35 a.m.
Vice-President, Canadian Society for Unconventional Gas
The National Energy Board, to the best of my knowledge, reviews Canada's unconventional resources from time to time.
I'd like to give some perspective. We prepared, in spring 2010, an assessment of Canada's unconventional gas resources, and that report is available on our website.
11:35 a.m.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Specifically, I want to be short. We only have a few minutes.
You're in the unconventional and gas sector. Is the NEB doing a national study right now on unconventional sources?
11:35 a.m.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Okay. I would imagine you would if they were.
This is a question with respect to the fracturing chemicals that are put down. Is your company obligated under Canadian law, provincial law, to disclose the chemicals that are used in the fracturing process?
11:35 a.m.
Senior Vice-President, Shale Division, North American Operations (NAO), Talisman Energy Inc.
Mr. Chairman, I'd like to address that.
No, by law we are not. However, our company, as I cited earlier, has taken the stance to be proactive and actually put those chemicals out on our website.
11:35 a.m.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
So a change in the law that would require all companies to do what your company is doing wouldn't be offensive to you?
11:35 a.m.
Senior Vice-President, Shale Division, North American Operations (NAO), Talisman Energy Inc.
Mr. Chairman, no. We actually support public disclosure of frac fluids.
11:35 a.m.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
The question of water is prevalent. It's mischaracterizing the public concern, particularly in Quebec, that it's just an unfamiliarity with your industry. It's legitimate to say people have legitimate concerns and maybe are familiar with your industry, at least through research.
On the water question, we've heard testimony that approximately 50% of the water that's injected into a well is not recovered. It does down and stays down. Is that correct?
11:35 a.m.
Senior Vice-President, Shale Division, North American Operations (NAO), Talisman Energy Inc.
Yes, that is correct.
11:35 a.m.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
If that water is mixed and interlaced with chemicals, some of which we all admit we wouldn't want to drink if we didn't have to, the public's concern would be whether those chemicals then return back to the water supply. The volumes are quite extraordinary. I mean, 12 million to 32 million litres per well is a lot of water. If there's some number of tonnes of chemicals going down, some of them carcinogenic, and 50% of that, we assume, doesn't come back up, it's now in an aquifer supply that people are going to rely on for their drinking water and for basic living.
11:40 a.m.
Senior Vice-President, Shale Division, North American Operations (NAO), Talisman Energy Inc.
Mr. Chairman, if I could address that, that water we inject is over a mile below where aquifers are, where fresh waters are taken that people use as their drinking source. Once we put it in the ground a mile deep, some of that water, as you mentioned, does not come back. It will stay there, and it will not be part of the aquifer.
11:40 a.m.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Have we not had experiences, though, particularly in Pennsylvania, of water supplies becoming contaminated? Is the Pennsylvania and U.S. government not supplying water to residents right now who've had their water contaminated?
11:40 a.m.
Senior Vice-President, Shale Division, North American Operations (NAO), Talisman Energy Inc.
Mr. Chairman, there are two different issues there. There's been not one documented case in North America of frac water getting into an aquifer.
11:40 a.m.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
So it's actually once the well is in production.
Is the methane getting into the drinking water and contaminating water supplies a concern?
11:40 a.m.
Vice-President, Canadian Society for Unconventional Gas
That is a concern, but I think two things. In Pennsylvania, the issue has been gas migration. This is gas that has migrated from shallow sources in the cement or between the cement and the casing or between the cement and the rock up into aquifers. It has nothing to do with hydraulic fracturing and fracture fluids.
