Evidence of meeting #34 for Natural Resources in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was need.
A recording is available from Parliament.
11:40 a.m.
Conservative
Mike Allen Conservative Tobique—Mactaquac, NB
Mr. Collyer was pointing out the IEA study. Could the clerk get us a copy of that study? I think it would be very helpful for our report.
11:40 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit
Thank you very much, Mr. Allen. We will do that. I think everybody should have a copy of that study.
Carry on please, Madame Brunelle.
11:40 a.m.
Bloc
Paule Brunelle Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
Mr. Wright said in his presentation that the government should ensure a streamlined regulatory environment. I would like to know what he means by that.
11:40 a.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Petrobank Energy and Resources Ltd.
Thank you.
I think it's important to recognize that the regulatory system we have in Canada is the best in the world. The application of that regulatory system and the approval system in order to get projects over the goal line and into production is a very important part of how business makes a decision to operate in a particular jurisdiction.
Our hope would be that at the federal and provincial levels there would be a common mindset toward making sure regulations are followed and making sure approvals are reached in an acceptable manner, but with no duplication of paper, with no duplication of authority, and with a very simple end goal of making sure that we are approving the best-engineered and best-thought-out projects and making sure that they meet all the requirements of all levels of government in a very simple manner.
11:45 a.m.
Bloc
Paule Brunelle Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
With respect to duplication, we are obviously in agreement with you. That is a provincial area of jurisdiction and the federal government should stay out of these matters as much as possible.
Environmental questions are of great concern to us. As you know, there is a lot of pressure on your industry. You have really focused on carbon capture and storage projects, but according to some, this technology has not been proven.
What you have to say about this? Would this really be the solution to pollution problems generated, unfortunately, by your industry's activities?
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit
Who would like to start?
Would you like to add, Mr. Lambert?
Go ahead, Mr. Collyer.
11:45 a.m.
President, Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers
Maybe I could start, and Mr. Lambert and Mr. Wright can add.
I believe there are three opportunities to reduce greenhouse emissions from the oil sands. Mr. Lambert already referred to the 40% reduction in greenhouse gas emissions per barrel since 1990. That's significant. Frankly, it's far greater than what's been achieved on the downstream use over that same period of time.
Looking forward, I think carbon capture and sequestration will play a role. I think we'd all acknowledge that there is a gap in terms of the economic viability of those projects at this point in time, but I think they will have application.
A project in Weyburn that's operational today is recovering incremental crude oil from recovery and transport of carbon dioxide to that field. That is an opportunity, but I think it's fair to say it will have focused applications.
The second one is improving the efficiency of our service operations. That's where a lot of the benefits have come from up to this point.
Third, and I think probably most importantly, in terms of the mix of future production from oil sands and the increasing importance of in situ, I think there are tremendous opportunities to, in effect, improve the efficiency of the extraction process. Mr. Wright talked about one of those; many others are being looked at. I think we understate the potential improvement opportunity from the in situ part of the oil sands business that will come from more efficient extraction. Whether that comes from use of solvents, lower temperatures, steam, or innovative recovery processes such as Petrobank is applying, I think there is tremendous opportunity there, and we should not understate its potential going forward.
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit
Mr. Lambert, could you give a very short response? We're over time here a little bit for Madame Brunelle.
Go ahead, please.
11:45 a.m.
Vice-President, Sustainable Development, Suncor Energy Inc.
I certainly agree with the notion that there aren't any silver bullets here, but carbon capture and storage does represent an important option. It's at an early stage of technology development, so it's costly today, but I would highlight the creation of an entity known as Carbon Management Canada. It's housed at the University of Calgary, but is federally funded through the centres of excellence program. It is bringing 22 universities and those researchers together to try to drive the costs of CCS down, plus put more options on the table.
In addition to that, there's innovation under way, as Mr. Collyer suggests, that has some promise as well. One field test we'll be doing next summer is on an oxygen-fired SAGD boiler. It uses oxygen instead of atmospheric air as the combustion air for natural gas. It produces a relatively pure carbon dioxide stream and eliminates any NOx emissions as well.
So we have many irons in the fire. More options are better.
Thank you.
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit
Thank you.
Merci, madame Brunelle.
I want to say, Mr. Cullen, it was much easier dealing with your motion with you not here.
11:45 a.m.
Voices
Oh, oh!
11:50 a.m.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
He's a tricky chair, this one.
Thanks, gentlemen, for presenting.
Mr. Lambert, I don't know how popular Suncor has been around the energy producers for its comments on the need for some sort of national dialogue, but I take note, again, that you folks repeat that a dialogue on a sustainable energy strategy is required in this country.
Elements of that, I think, are what are most important to this committee's study of energy security, trying to understand if there is a national energy security strategy or a national sustainable.... I mean, we could use some words interchangeably; I use energy security and sustainable energy that way.
Would elements that include dealing with foreign ownership, for example, be of some question--elements of exportation of raw materials? I'm trying to understand....
It's very hard to define energy security, actually. We know this. But in that dialogue, would those be some of the elements of conversation that you folks at Suncor would imagine?
11:50 a.m.
Vice-President, Sustainable Development, Suncor Energy Inc.
For absolute certain, the outcomes a strategy should encompass should take into account economic outcomes, environmental outcomes, and social outcomes that are important to Canadians. There's a need for a broad view because of how energy touches so many parts of our economy and our society.
11:50 a.m.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
If those are the three pillars or elements that you see--I couldn't disagree with those ones--the notion of environmental liabilities is a question that comes up with the tar sands all the time. If there's a long recovery process or a cost that's going to be deferred to the public in general, that's of concern to the public. I'm sure your company understands that. Is that fair?
11:50 a.m.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Okay.
On the question around reclamation specifically, you noted today that Suncor has made some investments. Should there be an industry standard?
What is the industry standard right now for reclamation of a tailings pond? When does it have to be returned to its natural state under the law right now in Canada?
November 25th, 2010 / 11:50 a.m.
Vice-President, Sustainable Development, Suncor Energy Inc.
It's a provincially regulated activity. We file reclamation plans that are part of the approvals of oil sands projects. Those reclamation plans assign timelines and milestones that are used for assessing our progress.
11:50 a.m.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
I know they're in the plans, but do they tend to have an average? You're talking about 30 years down to 10 years; is it 40 years? Is there an industry average? Is there something that you internally set? Does the Province of Alberta ask you to set some target on average, or is it always specific to the project itself?
11:50 a.m.
Vice-President, Sustainable Development, Suncor Energy Inc.
It has historically been specific to the project itself, based on the type of mine planning and the nature of the operations of any given project. However, I would alert the committee that the ERCB and Alberta Environment have recently tabled further clarity on tailings treatment and reclamation that is providing additional framework elements to how we conduct mining and tailings management operations.
11:50 a.m.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
First nations relations were raised earlier. The terms accommodation and consultation are often used. Those are the legal terms as defined by the Supreme Court, yet there is no working definition from the federal government of what it is for a company to accommodate and consult. It also seems to be project specific, first nations specific.
Would it be helpful if there was a working definition, if the Government of Canada said, “To tick this box, you must go through the following steps”, just as you folks do with other requirements of your projects?
Mr. Collyer, to your members, would that be helpful?
11:50 a.m.
President, Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers
There are consultation guidelines in place today, as I think you are aware—
11:50 a.m.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Yes. I'm sorry, I'll be specific with my question. What I mean is for you to legally be able to stand in court or go to your shareholders, the companies that you represent, and say, “We have done accommodation and consultation. It looked like this. That's what the feds asked us to do, and that's what we did.”