Natural Resources Committee on Oct. 5th, 2011

[Wladyslaw Lizon, Conservative, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

Thank you.

I have a question regarding public participation in environmental assessments. How does the CEAA support this participation and how does it work?

[Helen Cutts]

We have a funding envelope for public participation. We have two elements of the envelope. One is for aboriginal participation and one is more general.

We have an application process that essentially asks people to write in and describe why they need participant funding. They will describe the types of areas for which they need money. They might need money to travel to a hearing. They might need money for some expert advice and for time to consult with their members. A committee that is partly external to our agency and has a variety of players on it then makes the determination on how much of the funding element should go to this applicant versus that applicant.

[Wladyslaw Lizon, Conservative, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

Is there a requirement that certain projects include public participation or is it up to the panel to decide?

[Helen Cutts]

Everything that is for a panel or for a comprehensive study is eligible for participant funding. There is no judgment on our part that some of them are more worthy or not. As long as it's a comprehensive study or a review panel, it's eligible.

[John McCauley]

Maybe I could add that the act identifies for comprehensive studies certain requirements for public participation at certain points in the process. Similarly, for review panels, the entire process is a public process. For screenings, though, it is at the discretion of the responsible authority to decide whether and how to consult the public.

[Wladyslaw Lizon, Conservative, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

Next, if there is any work on the environmental assessment that overlaps at the provincial and federal levels, how do you ensure that it is coordinated and harmonized so the same work is not done twice?

[Helen Cutts]

We have bilateral agreements with the provinces to say generally how we're going to work together, but then when we go in on a particular project, we set out a particular project agreement. We'll say, “All right, in your province you have a public hearing 30 days after this benchmark, and we typically have it 60 days after this benchmark, so let's agree that we're going to hold our public hearing at this point.”

We set out every timeline practically day by day. When we have to give guidance to the proponents on what information we need from them, we say, “Let's work together.” We say we're going to spend a period of time deciding between our two levels of government what questions we are going to ask of the proponents, so they're getting one public hearing instead of two and they're getting one set of requirements. Then we work together in looking at those requirements. If we have further questions, we go out as one voice to clarify. That's how we try to make two processes into one.

[Wladyslaw Lizon, Conservative, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Claude Gravelle]

We'll go to Madam Day.

[Anne-Marie Day, NDP, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Thank you.

Could you tell me how aboriginal communities are going to be made part of the process; are they included in working groups, are they invited?

[Helen Cutts]

The constitutional duty to consult aboriginals is independent of the act. What we do is integrate aboriginal participation right into our environmental assessment process. At various stages we go out and consult with aboriginal groups. We consult with them at the very early stages when we are first getting in a project proposal. I think there about four different occasions--

[John McCauley]

At least.

[Helen Cutts]

--when we ask aboriginal groups to state their views. The agency itself works as the crown consultation coordinator for the whole of government. Instead of having a process that is very distributed--having somebody at DFO and somebody at Transport and somebody at NRCan, each individually going out and consulting with aboriginal groups--CEAA plays a coordinating role so that we can listen to what the aboriginal people are saying about the environmental effects. We don't ask them only how it is affecting them right now; we ask them about their traditional knowledge and how best to mitigate the potential effects. We see them as experts in areas that are going to help us get to a better environmental outcome.

We also work very closely with the Department of Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development to ensure that on any project we are reaching out to all the aboriginal groups that could be affected by that project, whether they have a land claim that is asserted or is final.

[Anne-Marie Day, NDP, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

In terms of environmental decisions, you mentioned that mitigation measures are taken into account. When there are mitigation measures after an environmental study, how are they received by the promoters? Can you give us some examples?

[Helen Cutts]

Do you want to know the exact types of mitigation a proponent would be asked to carry out? I'm not very good with my examples. You have worked in this a bit more.

[John McCauley]

Essentially, as part of the environmental impact statement the proponent would prepare, they commit themselves to a series of measures. While the impact statement is being reviewed by expert departments, they may suggest additional measures, and those would be agreed to by the proponent. At the end of the process, there may be additional measures identified that are necessary to reduce impacts to non-significant levels, and those would be, again, communicated to the proponent. The expectation would be that the proponent would be implementing those measures.

[Helen Cutts]

I thought of a concrete example. The types of mitigation are really of two types. Some of them are during the construction phase and some of them are permanent. During the construction phase, there could be a concern that nesting birds are going to be disturbed. The scientists would tell you at what stage the birds are nesting and then would require the proponent to commit to not carrying out any construction activities during that period, say May 1 to June 30.

Mitigation measures can be very specific to a specific time in the year. They can be about how to replace a stream that's been damaged or about how to provide alternative habitat.

[Anne-Marie Day, NDP, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

As a project of such a huge scope as the oil sands was being developed, environmental studies were conducted. The project has negative consequences. There is a lot of talk about them these days.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Claude Gravelle]

Thank you, Ms. Day. You have used your five minutes already.

I'm curious about this. You said that you have bilateral agreements with six of the ten provinces. Is Ontario one of those provinces?

[Helen Cutts]

Yes.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Claude Gravelle]

All right. Thank you.

Mr. Anderson, you're next.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I see we're almost at the end of our hour.

Mr. Calkins asked you a couple of questions about timelines. What timelines would proponents expect if they're doing a screening, if they're doing the study, and if they're doing the full review? What are the average timelines for each of those? Do you know?

[John McCauley]

There's no legislative or regulatory requirement for a timeline on screening. I don't know what the practice has been. For the 6,000 projects, it can range from fairly simple developments to more complex ones.

We have a regulation for comprehensive studies that requires our agency to complete its work within 365 days. It does not include the time the proponent may be carrying out its study. Our clock would stop while the proponent is carrying out its analysis.

In the context of our review panel, there are no timelines in the legislation. The agreement that usually sets out the panel would identify for the panel the timelines it must respect when it carries out its work.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

What would be the usual average?

[John McCauley]

It's typically 12 months to 14 months.