Evidence of meeting #66 for Natural Resources in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was innovation.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:15 p.m.
NDP
February 12th, 2013 / 5:15 p.m.
Vice-President, Canadian Division, Regulatory and Government Relations, Encana Corporation
I'm not sure. I'm not aware.
5:15 p.m.
NDP
5:15 p.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Thank you to Ms. Liu for sharing her time with me.
Mr. Dunn, I want to come back to the overall funds that Encana allocates to the environmental innovation fund. What percentage of your operating revenues goes to that environmental fund?
5:15 p.m.
Vice-President, Canadian Division, Regulatory and Government Relations, Encana Corporation
Probably somewhat less than 1%.
5:15 p.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC
Is that an industry standard, when you look at your competitors?
5:15 p.m.
Vice-President, Canadian Division, Regulatory and Government Relations, Encana Corporation
No. I would say that all companies have an innovative focus, and you'll fund items in a number of different ways, apart from distinct funds. I believe this innovation fund is, if not unique to Encana...there are probably a very limited number of companies that would target environmental innovation funds.
5:15 p.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC
Do you think the federal government could put any policies in place that would increase your investment in a fund like that?
5:15 p.m.
Vice-President, Canadian Division, Regulatory and Government Relations, Encana Corporation
As mentioned, I believe the SR and ED...giving these things tax advantages. Especially in times when dollars are tight, we're looking critically at all expenditures. Tax advantage expenditures would get that benefit.
5:15 p.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC
That's a real concern to us on this committee because Canada is a laggard around the world in terms of R and D investment, last in the industrialized world in terms of public investment, second to last in terms of the number of patents developed, and last in terms of the number of doctorates. We have to turn that around.
Mr. Heintzman, I want to clarify. You talked about less than 1% penetration in terms of consumers for the 500,000 megawatt hours that you supply. How many consumers are paying that preferential tariff of 2¢ or 3¢ for your green power?
5:20 p.m.
Co-founder and Director, Bullfrog Power
The penetration is a fraction of 1%. The number would be 8,000 to 9,000 homes and roughly 1,500 businesses.
5:20 p.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC
Thank you for that.
What are your projections over the next five to ten years in terms of growing that market?
5:20 p.m.
Co-founder and Director, Bullfrog Power
Roughly speaking, we would hope to be able to double that over the course of the next three to five years. I should emphasize that that is business as status quo. A number of different levers have been pulled in the United States, any one of which could dramatically increase the penetration.
5:20 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit
Thank you, Mr. Julian.
We go now to Mr. Hsu for up to five minutes. Go ahead, please.
5:20 p.m.
Liberal
Ted Hsu Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON
Thank you.
Mr. Dunn, can you tell us a little of the history of innovation in fracking fluids? What does “green” mean? What changes have occurred?
5:20 p.m.
Vice-President, Canadian Division, Regulatory and Government Relations, Encana Corporation
We have developed what we call a responsible products program, and we have shared this with the industry. We sat down with a toxicologist and looked at the accepted toxicological types of rankings of various fluids. As well, we worked with our suppliers, and even where there was confidentiality information we went in and signed non-disclosure agreements, on a company-to-company basis, so we had all the information that's in there.
We looked at the various components of fluids and decided, based upon their toxicological properties, that certain chemicals, principally due to their properties and their pervasiveness, presented a certain degree of risk, and that risk could be managed through operating practices or through avoidance.
We've decided, as a company, to avoid those certain chemicals that I mentioned.
5:20 p.m.
Liberal
Ted Hsu Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON
I'm just wondering, in terms of the chemistry, what chemicals were there and what is there now? There always has to be a surfactant in there. There used to be heavy metals and now there are not. Chemically, what changes have occurred?
5:20 p.m.
Vice-President, Canadian Division, Regulatory and Government Relations, Encana Corporation
The intent of the chemical packages that we use would be the same, whether it be a surfactant or a biocide or some sort of corrosion control. What we've been able to do within those packages is substitute less harmful chemicals, if you will, to meet that same intent. To be honest with you, I don't understand what we swapped in, but I do understand what we swapped out, and that's really the beauty of it all.
5:20 p.m.
Liberal
Ted Hsu Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON
Just going back even a little further, to the original development of hydraulic fracturing technology, can you tell us a little bit about what role Canadian researchers played in that?
I don't mean to put you on the spot, if that's not something you feel comfortable—
5:20 p.m.
Vice-President, Canadian Division, Regulatory and Government Relations, Encana Corporation
Canada is an innovative place. It's not the easiest place to do business in at times, with the environment and such. If you look at pumping large volumes of water and keeping it from freezing in the dead of winter, Canadians have come up with incredibly innovative methods.
5:20 p.m.
Liberal
Ted Hsu Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON
Would you say that Canadian companies, or Canadian researchers, have played a pretty big role in developing the technology that's now used around the world?
5:20 p.m.
Vice-President, Canadian Division, Regulatory and Government Relations, Encana Corporation
Certainly, if you look at hydraulic fracturing in the service companies I mentioned.... One area, with regard to the development of the oil sands and the SAGD technology, for example, was all developed out of the University of Calgary with a professor named Roger Butler. There was some incredibly innovative work done to work on Canadian resources.
5:25 p.m.
Conservative
Mike Allen Conservative Tobique—Mactaquac, NB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I just want to pick up very quickly, Mr. Howard, on one of the comments you made from the questioning by Mr. Anderson. Did I correctly hear you say that Marcellus shale is coming into Quebec?
