Evidence of meeting #75 for Natural Resources in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was infrastructure.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:35 p.m.
NDP
Claude Gravelle NDP Nickel Belt, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'm sorry I missed your presentation. I was a bit late coming in.
I would like to expand on a question that my colleague Mr. Nicholls asked.
Mrs. Knobel, I believe you said that the integrated trade support budget was $3 million. Is that for all products worldwide?
4:35 p.m.
Director, Multi-Industry Sector and Virtual Practices Division, Global Business Opportunities Bureau, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
That would be across the sectors, and it's across identified priority sectors. As well, there is a component there for CSR projects initiatives—again, those that posts identify—and there is a component in there with respect to Canadian investment abroad.
4:35 p.m.
Director, Multi-Industry Sector and Virtual Practices Division, Global Business Opportunities Bureau, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
No. When I was referring to these numbers, I wasn't speaking to FTEs or departmental budgets. This is a fund available for specific initiatives.
4:35 p.m.
Director, Multi-Industry Sector and Virtual Practices Division, Global Business Opportunities Bureau, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
This allows posts to highlight in their markets Canadian expertise, products, and services.
4:35 p.m.
NDP
Claude Gravelle NDP Nickel Belt, ON
In your opinion, should that fund be increased? Would it benefit Canada and the industry if that fund were increased?
4:35 p.m.
Director, Multi-Industry Sector and Virtual Practices Division, Global Business Opportunities Bureau, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
I don't think that's for me to speak to. It's certainly for me to look to the project proposals that come in and assess them against the funding criteria and the sector strategies that the department has prepared.
4:35 p.m.
NDP
Claude Gravelle NDP Nickel Belt, ON
All right. Thank you.
As I said, I didn't hear your presentation, but I did read the notes that were supplied to us, so I'd like one of you to comment on infrastructure. I'm particularly interested in energy infrastructure that's missing; there are some gaps in the country, right across Canada.
For example, in the Ring of Fire, there's no electrical grid. Is it possible for you to supply us with a list or a map of places in Canada that have no infrastructure for energy and for electricity specifically?
4:35 p.m.
Director General, Petroleum Resources Branch, Energy Sector, Department of Natural Resources
We can probably connect with the mining sector in Natural Resources or they may be invited to join you. I'm not sure that I quite follow you, but are you thinking about areas where there's economic development potential and there isn't electricity delivered for it?
4:35 p.m.
NDP
Claude Gravelle NDP Nickel Belt, ON
That's right. There's no infrastructure.
For example, in the Ring of Fire, there's no electricity. There's no road. But the Ring of Fire is a $50-billion project and there could be a lot of money. Some people even say that it's bigger than the oil sands, but there's no infrastructure.
4:35 p.m.
Director General, Petroleum Resources Branch, Energy Sector, Department of Natural Resources
My colleague from the electricity branch says he can help to respond to that.
4:35 p.m.
Director General, Electricity Resources Branch, Energy Sector, Department of Natural Resources
We can provide you a map showing where all the existing infrastructure is, and we could supplement that with planned expansions.
4:35 p.m.
NDP
Claude Gravelle NDP Nickel Belt, ON
Is there a role for the federal and provincial governments in getting infrastructure to these places? Is there a role for the federal government to play, along with the provincial government?
4:35 p.m.
Director General, Petroleum Resources Branch, Energy Sector, Department of Natural Resources
I guess it depends on the type of project, the type of infrastructure that's required, and what kind of programming is available in different federal departments. Natural Resources Canada does not generally fund infrastructure development activities. It's not generally in the mandate of the way we work, but Infrastructure Canada has a mandate to fund infrastructure. I don't know whether energy activities for these types of developments are applicable. I'm not sure.
4:40 p.m.
NDP
Claude Gravelle NDP Nickel Belt, ON
I've asked you if you could supply me with a map of where we need infrastructure. Are there other places in Canada where there is a chance for us to develop natural resources but there's no infrastructure, no way of getting at them? We're quite familiar with the Ring of Fire, but are there other places in Canada?
4:40 p.m.
Director General, Petroleum Resources Branch, Energy Sector, Department of Natural Resources
I believe the north has tremendous potential for energy and resource development, and I think there have been a number of different projects in different parts of the country to look at that. The degree to which those things have access to infrastructure depends on where they are. I guess it depends on the viability of the project and nature of the project. Some are mining related. Some might be forestry related.
You would perhaps have to be a bit more precise about what types of projects, but for the Ring of Fire, for example, I think you've given us something we can develop a map on and provide to you.
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit
Thank you, Mr. Gravelle. Your time's up.
We go now to Mr. Leef, followed by an NDP member, and then Mr. Anderson.
Go ahead please, Mr. Leef.
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
Ryan Leef Conservative Yukon, YT
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thanks to all the witnesses.
Just to follow up on some of the points Mr. Gravelle was making, of course being from the north, I know that we've certainly benefited from the gas tax fund and its indexing, which has allowed the communities across Canada to make some important infrastructure investments. I certainly see the benefits in our communities. Of course, if the municipalities or the territory decides to spend that on energy infrastructure, they are able to do that, and if they are inclined to spend it on road infrastructure to support energy enhancements or mining opportunities and those sorts of things to build on their energy sector, they have been more than willing to do so.
Just to build a little on Mr. Gravelle's question about northern opportunities, we appreciated the green energy fund, which is a large contributor to the Mayo B hydroelectric project in the Yukon that is now supporting a lot of mines in the Na-Cho Nyak Dun area of the Yukon in the community of Mayo.
Of course we have liquefied natural gas interests in the Dempster area and lots of growth potential. So much of the geothermal and wind energy exploration projects are being jointly funded by the territorial government and the Canadian government.
I guess that's my “props” for things going on in the Yukon.
I want to move quickly. You made a comment that by about 2035 the electricity supply will continue to grow into the U.S. market. Your highlights show the energy benefits to Canada contributing about 10% of Canada's total GDP. But I didn't see anywhere in your slide that would show.... I see the 47% growth, of course, on slide 6, but there's no reflection here—or maybe I missed it—of what the estimated percentage of GDP percentage it will be.
Will it just grow and every other sector of the Canadian economy grow equally with it, or is the energy sector going to outstrip other contributing sectors and represent more than 10% of Canada's GDP by 2035?
4:40 p.m.
Director General, Petroleum Resources Branch, Energy Sector, Department of Natural Resources
That's a good question. I'm not sure we could forecast GDP growth and percentage of it as energy out that far, but we could certainly maybe give the committee some examples of where it has been. Just like mutual funds, I'm not sure I'm ready to predict where it's going to go.
4:40 p.m.
Director General, Petroleum Resources Branch, Energy Sector, Department of Natural Resources
But I think we could give you that.
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
Ryan Leef Conservative Yukon, YT
That would be great.
Can you give us a little bit more information on the breakdown? You say 75% of power generation in Canada is non-emitting.
Can you maybe touch on exactly what that means, and then what the other 25% is, but maybe give us a bit of a split on that 75% and what non-emitting means from your perspective?
4:40 p.m.
Director General, Electricity Resources Branch, Energy Sector, Department of Natural Resources
I'd be happy to answer that question.
In terms of electricity generation, 60.2% of electricity generation is hydroelectric. Wind currently represents 1.6%, and biomass represents 1.4%. So in total, renewables represent over 63% of electricity generation.
When you add in nuclear, which is approaching 15%, it gets you to over 77% of electricity that is generated from non-emitting sources. That's where the 77% comes from.
You asked about the remainder. The remainder is mainly coal, but there is some oil-fired electricity generated in some places. For example, currently a lot of the electricity generated by the Holyrood plant in Newfoundland is oil-fired.