Natural Resources Committee on Jan. 29th, 2024

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

No. The production of that mine isn't for Canadian use. It gets exported to China.

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

No. Sayona is in Quebec. Sayona is in Quebec and it's used in North America.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

It's in North America, not in Canada. You got it.

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

Bill C-49 does not change the Impact Assessment Act. I'm not sure where you're going with a lot of the things you're saying.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

I quoted you the section of Bill C-69 that is in Bill C-49. I quoted the section of Bill C-49 that brings in the unconstitutional section from Bill C-69, Minister.

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

At the end of the day, in virtually all impact assessments, including CEA 2012, operationalized under the government of Stephen Harper, which I would suggest was a Conservative government.... There are decisions at the end of it—

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

You've been in government for nine years.

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

—that are made by democratically elected authorities.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Minister Wilkinson, can you hold for a second? We have a point of order from Ms. Dabrusin.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Again, it's really hard to follow when Mrs. Stubbs is speaking over the minister every time. I'm just asking to find a sequence to this so that we're not speaking at the same time. It's making it really difficult.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Thank you, Ms. Dabrusin, for that reminder.

I think the nice sequence is we ask our question and we get an answer. We let the individual asking the question finish; then the individual, in this case the minister, answers the question before we move to the next one. It is also very helpful for our interpreters, who are trying to interpret the back-and-forth.

Go one at a time. Let's not speak over each other, and I think we'll have a smooth remainder of the meeting.

Minister Wilkinson, I'm sorry to interrupt you partway through your response, but I'll turn it back to you to respond.

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

I was just saying that it is normal in a democratic system that democratic authorities have the final decision-making authority. That was true under CEA 2012, which Stephen Harper put into place. I'm not exactly sure where she's going with that.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

My question was on cost and on resourcing for the boards to execute their mandates.

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

The resourcing for the boards works in the same way that other regulatory authorities work, which is that they are cost-recovered from industry. They are not paid for by the government.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

For the execution of the new mandates imposed on the regulators by the government, you're going to get that completely from industry.

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

That is the intent, in the same way that it is for offshore petroleum. That's the same thing for the Canada Energy Regulator.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

That's interesting, except that my Atlantic Canadian colleagues have just explained to you with proof that there's no such development and that the signal the private sector proponent took from this bill was to bail out.

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

All the work they do with respect to bids, existing facilities, the approval of the Bay du Nord project a couple of years ago and everything else is cost-recovered from industry.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

Minister, in Bill C-49 you have the ability to end any current development by issuing in the antidevelopment zones. As you know, and as we've discussed frequently, indigenous people and communities are involved at extremely high levels in the energy sector and all kinds of sources of energy. In fact, energy companies are the biggest employers of indigenous people across Canada. That's why things like the just transition will hurt them disproportionately.

In your bill, as in others, you have no requirement for consultation when you cancel licences. When there's cancellation as a result of invoking an antidevelopment zone, which you give the power to do in Bill C-49, there's no requirement for consultation with private sector proponents and, importantly, with indigenous communities or people who may be involved in both offshore petroleum and alternative development as equity owners and private sector proponents.

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

If one was to cancel a holding for reasons of biodiversity protection or something, it can only be done in conjunction with the province. Of course, in those kinds of circumstances you would arrive at that conclusion only after having consultations with a range of folks.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

The Prime Minister didn't do that consultation when he cancelled northern gateway.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Thank you, Mrs. Stubbs.

Thank you, Minister Wilkinson, for your answer. The time is up.

We're now going to Ms. Jones for the next round.

[Yvonne Jones, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I just want to remind people, because a lot of the discussion has been very much fragmented and not directly related to the bill, that the primary beneficiaries of the Atlantic Accord have been the provinces in which oil and gas have been developed. It has allowed them to have royalties and benefits from the industry that would not have been afforded to them without the Atlantic Accord in the first place.

The last government that tried to shut down the Atlantic Accord was the Stephen Harper government, and it was in 2006. I remember it well. I sat in the Newfoundland and Labrador legislature when Premier Danny Williams had to go fighting day in and day out with the federal government, with Stephen Harper and the Conservatives, to land the Atlantic Accord again in Newfoundland and Labrador.

I say to my colleague that the only ones hoodwinking people here today are the Conservatives by trying to find reasons to line up against the accord so that Newfoundlanders, Labradorians and Nova Scotians don't get the benefits of these jobs, of these opportunities, they have been used to and are owed.

The bill before us is here because these provinces have proven in Canada—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!