Natural Resources Committee on Jan. 29th, 2024

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

That's just ridiculous. At the end of the day, companies make decisions. If you look at the years prior to 2023—I'm not sure if you've looked at them—there were significant purchases of bids.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Yes, that was prior to your bill.

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

At the end of the day, this bill makes no significant changes to the process with respect to oil and gas. If you think it does, then you should go back and read the bill.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Thank you, Minister Wilkinson, for your responses.

We'll now go to Mr. Sorbara for five minutes.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Welcome, Minister, to the natural resources committee and the first day back in this session of Parliament.

Minister, first off, if I could start down a more humble avenue, we are all elected MPs, and one of the things I always say to my constituents is, “I am your voice here in Ottawa. I bring your issues and concerns to Ottawa and fight for you every day.”

I am pretty certain that the folks back on the east coast, including the premiers, are asking us to fight for them here in having Bill C-49 make its way through committee, be studied vigorously and passed so we can use it as a catalyst to create wealth, to create jobs and obviously to transition to a net-zero world, which here in Ontario we are seeing through the transition in the automotive sector that our government is seized with today.

Minister, in this race—I'm not going to say “against time”—that we are in to attract investment, we need to slow down the consequences of climate change, seize the economic opportunities and shift to a net-zero environment, including in our source of electricity and in energy as well.

Frankly, we cannot afford to lose and we can't afford to waste time. We know the economic potential this could bring us is significant. It is bringing a lot of economic potential. We're already blessed in Canada with 85% of our electricity being generated from non-carbon sources.

I would like to hear from you, Minister, how this legislation, Bill C-49, will ensure Canada can continue to lead this race.

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

Thank you for the question.

Look, Canada faces a choice. Either we can look to lead the global race to net zero, building on areas of comparative advantage or areas where we can reasonably develop comparative advantage in the world, or we can let it pass us by with all of the attendant consequences of being a late mover. We can lead or we can bury our heads in the sand, which is what my Conservative colleagues clearly seem to want to do.

In this context, the development of clean energy grids, which this will enable, is really important. The development of long-term energy that can be exported around the world is really important, and this will enable that as well. It will create thousands of jobs, just like at the battery plants, the electric vehicle facilities, the net-zero petrochemical facility and the E-One Moli battery facility in Maple Ridge, British Columbia. It will create an enormous number of jobs. It will create economic prosperity for communities across both provinces. It is why both the Premier of Nova Scotia and the Premier of Newfoundland and Labrador strongly support this bill, which they helped to negotiate.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Thank you, Minister.

One thing you've been doing over your time in this position and others is travel internationally and speak to investors wanting to invest in Canada, specifically in various sectors of our economy where we are leading the transition to non-carbon industry. We know that's where the world is going. We know that under our leadership that's where Canada is going.

How are we uniquely positioned to continue attracting that investment? We see the numbers, the third most FDI flows for the first half of 2023, and I look forward to seeing the full-year results. I think we'll be up at those top levels, but as you said, with the Dow investment in Alberta's industrial heartland and the investments in B.C., Ontario and Quebec—really, across the board—how are we positioned there, Minister?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

I think we're very well positioned.

Canada has a relatively clean grid, and there's opportunity to build upon that to have abundance, affordability and reliability and to utilize that for the purpose of clean domestic manufacturing.

We have resources that the world needs, including critical minerals, and we have regulatory structures that are stable and political structures that are stable. That's really important in a world that is very, very challenging right now.

Countries are very interested in Canada. We obviously need to move. We need to be cost-competitive. We need to enable things like Bill C-49 to ensure that we are putting in place the regulatory structure that will allow us to move forward. Canada is enormously well situated. We just cannot bury our heads in the sand and pretend the energy transition is not happening, which is what the Conservative Party of Canada, for whatever reason, seems to want to do.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Thank you, Minister. Time is up.

Thank you, Mr. Sorbara.

We're now going to give five minutes to Mr. Ellis.

Mr. Ellis, the floor is yours.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Thanks very much, Chair.

Thanks for being here, Minister.

I think it was very disappointing to hear you start the climate change rhetoric and suggest that the Conservatives, because we have questions, are climate change deniers. You know and I know that's just foolishness. This process is designed to have questions. The sad part is that you're the person here to answer them. Your beginning rhetoric is very disappointing for the person I've come to know.

That being said, is your primary purpose here to go on a climate crusade or is there an economic case? As we get into this, we know the economics doesn't exist. Which is it, climate crusade or economics?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

It is both.

I would say that while I enjoy our conversations in the gym, I have to call it like it is. The Conservative Party of Canada's climate plan is to let the planet burn. You cannot take any other observation away from everything that you folks oppose. You have zero interest in reducing emissions. It is appalling that that you folks have such disregard—

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Minister, I'll have to interrupt you there.

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

—for the future of our children and our grandchildren.

At the end of the day, though, you have to fight climate change. You have to do it in a manner that—

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

This is my time.

Excuse me, Chair.

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

—is economically workable. We are doing both.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

I have a point of order, Chair.

This is a Nova Scotia member of Parliament trying to ask questions about an Atlantic Canadian piece of legislation that impacts Nova Scotia and Newfoundland and Labrador.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Thank you, colleagues. I would ask all colleagues, if you ask a question, to give the minister enough time to answer the question so that there is an appropriate balance.

Mr. Ellis, the floor is yours. Please continue.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Thank you very much, Chair.

Minister, I would suggest to you that I'm the one asking the questions. You're the one to provide the answers. If I'm interrupting you, I think that's a very reasonable thing. I'm trying to be respectful here, sir.

I would also suggest to you that your government's policies have driven two million Canadians to food banks every month. You're taxing them into oblivion. If we want to talk about the business case here, what happened to the business case of tidal power?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

I'm not sure how much you know about tidal power, but the issue that they ran into—

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

It's in my riding, Minister.

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

—with respect to DFO was about trying to figure out a pathway through which you could protect fish and fish habitat. Tidal power is far from commercial at this stage. It has to come with a significant cost reduction before it can be deployed on a commercial basis. I'm happy to sit down with you and have a conversation about technology, but it's not ready for prime time right now.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Okay. How about some simple questions, Minister?

How many fish were struck in the sustainable marine environment in the Minas Basin?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

There were projects that were permanent—

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

No, it's a simple number. I don't need a long explanation. Just give me a number. Come on.

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

As I said, we've established a working group—