Natural Resources Committee on Feb. 8th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 84 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Natural Resources.

Pursuant to the order of reference of Tuesday, October 17, 2023, and the adopted motion of Wednesday, December 13, 2023, the committee is resuming consideration of Bill C‑49, an act to amend the Canada—Newfoundland and Labrador Atlantic Accord Implementation Act and the Canada-Nova Scotia Offshore Petroleum Resources Accord Implementation Act and to make consequential amendments to other acts.

Since today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, I would like to make a few comments for the benefit of members and witnesses.

Please wait until I recognize you by name before speaking. For those participating by video conference, click on the microphone icon to activate your mic and please mute yourself when you are not speaking. For interpretation, those on Zoom have the choice at the bottom of their screen of floor, English or French. Those in the room can use the earpiece and select the desired channel.

Although this room is equipped with a powerful audio system, feedback events can occur. These can be extremely harmful to our interpreters and can cause serious injuries. The most common cause of sound feedback is an earpiece worn too close to a microphone. We therefore ask all participants to exercise a high degree of caution when handling the earpieces, especially when your microphone or your neighbour's microphone is turned on.

In order to prevent incidents and safeguard the hearing health of the interpreters, I invite participants to ensure that they speak into the microphone into which their headset is plugged and avoid manipulating the earbuds by placing them on the table away from the microphone when they are not in use.

I'll remind you that all comments should be addressed through the chair. Additionally, screenshots or taking photos of your screen is not permitted.

With us today for the first hour is Honourable Steven Guilbeault, Minister of Environment and Climate Change. We also have witnesses from the Department of Natural Resources. We have Abigail Lixfeld, senior director, renewable and electrical energy division, energy systems sector, and Annette Tobin, director, offshore management division, fuels sector. From the Impact Assessment Agency of Canada, we have Terence Hubbard, president, and Patricia Brady, vice-president, strategic policy and programs. From Parks Canada Agency, we have Ron Hallman, president and chief executive officer.

Minister Guilbeault, the floor is yours for five minutes. Welcome.

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Minister of Environment and Climate Change]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I am very pleased to be here with the members of the committee today to discuss Bill C-49.

Since you have already named everyone who is here with me, Mr. Chair, I won't repeat that information.

Before I begin, I would like to note that we are gathered here on the traditional lands of the Anishinabe Algonquin nation, which has long been the guardian of the environment that we share today.

The accord acts have enshrined decades of close collaboration between the federal government and the provincial governments of Nova Scotia and Newfoundland and Labrador, and benefit communities in both provinces and Canada's national interest.

The amendments now before the committee will secure many lasting benefits for generations to come.

According to the International Energy Agency, investment in clean energy has risen by 40% since 2020. More than 500 gigawatts of renewable generation capacity are set to be added globally in 2023, which is a new record. Renewables are set to contribute 80% of new power capacity by 2030.

Tripling renewable energy capacity, doubling the pace of energy efficiency improvements, ramping up electrification and slashing methane emissions from the fossil fuel operations together will provide more than 80% of the emissions reductions needed by 2030 to put the energy sector on a pathway to limit warming to 1.5 degrees Celsius, which is one of the goals of the Paris Agreement.

Offshore wind alone will be a $1-trillion industry by 2040. Effectively managing offshore petroleum activities has been key to protecting the environment while also capitalizing on an important resource. The Canada Energy Regulator estimates that wind power has the potential to provide about 30% of total electricity supply in 2050, compared to less than 6% in 2021. According to a recent study by the Public Policy Forum, offshore wind could be for Atlantic Canada what oil was to Texas or hydro power to Quebec. It could supply the region—6.5 million average homes—with almost twice the electricity currently consumed in Atlantic Canada annually.

Bill C‑49 represents an important shift towards accomplishing net-zero goals by unlocking our full power potential and building renewable energy projects in Canada's offshore.

My experience at COP28 this past fall made me realize that it is even more important to co-operate in achieving climate objectives. That is particularly important in Canada since the environment is a jurisdiction that the federal government shares with the provinces.

Bill C-49 is built on a spirit of co-operation with the governments of Nova Scotia and Newfoundland and Labrador, aligning jurisdictional processes, leveraging their decades of experience in petroleum management and strengthening our long-standing commitment to the joint management of the offshore, which includes a balance between ocean activities like energy production and the protection of our ocean's environment.

Bill C-49 will be important in clarifying the joint roles of the federal and provincial regulatory bodies in the impact assessment process, by clarifying opportunities for consultation between federal and provincial departments and agencies during key phases in the process. It will also help ensure that the positions of both management partners are reflected in the process, which will maximize co-operation.

Recently, the Supreme Court came out with an opinion on the Impact Assessment Act. It is important to recognize that the Supreme Court explicitly upheld the right of the Government of Canada to implement impact assessment legislation and collaborate with provinces and territories on environmental protection. Respecting these roles in partnership with provincial governments is a priority for the Government of Canada. These amendments to the accord acts represent a necessary and ambitious advancement of the principle of joint management in service to our shared economic and environmental goals.

This bill will also support the commitment that Canada made in the 2022 Kunming-Montreal Global Biodiversity Framework to protect at least 30% of our oceans by 2030.

In conclusion, the amendments to accord implementation acts will strengthen the principles for the joint management of Atlantic offshore resources and provide a regulatory pathway to harmonizing the many uses of our oceans.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Thank you, Minister Guilbeault, for your opening statement.

Colleagues, I will use these cards to give you a 30-second warning. Red means the time is up. I will try not to cut you off, but I will if I have to in order to make sure we keep the meeting on time.

We will start with Mr. Small from the Conservative Party of Canada for six minutes.

Mr. Small, the floor is yours.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses and minister for coming today.

Offshore wind energy production in Europe has grown from 11,000 megawatts in 2013 to close on 40,000. That's in the North Atlantic nations, which Canada also is. You have the U.K., Denmark, Ireland, Finland, Belgium, Netherlands, Germany, Portugal, Sweden and Spain all producing wind energy, and Canada is not. You've had eight years to table this legislation. That's eight years of lost opportunity for the people of Atlantic Canada.

Is it because you want to do it right, or is it because you don't care about Atlantic Canada?

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Thank you for the question.

I'm frankly a bit puzzled by it, since your party opposes a bill that would allow us to build thousands of megawatts of offshore wind for the economic, environmental and energy benefit of Atlantic Canadians and, by default, the rest of Canada.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

With all due respect, Minister, you had eight years to come up with this framework, so I'm assuming you want to do it right.

Is it because you want to do it right? Is that why it took you eight years? Is that what it is?

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

There are many reasons why.

We wanted to make sure, since we haven't developed offshore wind in Canada. Although there's been a lot of on-land development and it has increased substantially since we took office through a number of federal supports for the development of renewable energy across this country, obviously, offshore is a—

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

You took eight years to come up with this framework, and you're criticizing the Conservative Party because we want a couple of weeks or months to analyze this and make sure all those competing for that same space in the ocean have a seat at the table.

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Through the elaboration of this bill, there have been consultations with indigenous nations. As you know—I'm sure others have done so—I could quote the Premier of Newfoundland and Labrador and the Premier of Nova Scotia, who are very supportive of this bill. We've been in discussions with fishermen to ensure this is done right. We've already started regional impact assessments in both Nova Scotia and Newfoundland—

[An hon. member]

We were told....

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

—to ensure that, when we develop this, we do it in the right way.

[John Aldag, Liberal, Cloverdale—Langley City, BC]

I have a point of order.

We seem to run into this every time. Members ask questions, and the minister or witnesses attempt to answer and are not given the time and the courtesy to respond to the questions being asked. We seem to be repeating that pattern again today, so I just ask that perhaps you'll remind all members that there's time for asking questions and time for answering them.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Colleagues—

[John Aldag, Liberal, Cloverdale—Langley City, BC]

If you ask a good question, you get a good answer.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Thank you for your point of order, Mr. Aldag.

Colleagues, I would just ask you to ask your question but to allow the minister to provide his answer. I do ask colleagues to give an appropriate amount of time for the minister to answer the question, so I don't have to interrupt anybody and so we don't have points of order delaying our proceedings.

We will go back. I believe you were finishing your answer or just finished your answer, Mr. Guilbeault.

We will proceed with the question.

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

When we came into power in 2015, there was no system in place to support the development of renewable energy, so we had to build this from the ground up. There was nothing. There were very few projects being done in a few provinces. Now we're seeing this booming all across the country, and now we're moving to the next step, which is the development of offshore wind.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Minister, I'm sorry, but I'd like to remind you that your previous two colleagues, Minister O'Regan and Minister Wilkinson, came to this committee and told us that you extensively consulted with the fishing industry. Now, I have information, and you probably have it by now as well, that One Ocean—

[Yvonne Jones, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

On a point of order, Mr. Chair, those were not the exact words that were used.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Hold on, Mr. Small. We have a point of order from Ms. Jones.

Ms. Jones, colleagues, I just want to remind everybody as well—

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Did I say, “and I quote”?

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Can I ask you to hold for a second, Mr. Small, until I complete my ruling?

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Carry on.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Ms. Jones, thank you for your point of order.

Colleagues, I'll just remind you not to turn on your microphones. If you do have a point of order, state the procedural relevance of your point of order and do not use points of order to engage in debate. Thank you.

Mr. Small, we'll go back to you.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Minister O'Regan and Minister Wilkinson told us that there was some consultation. I won't say, “heavy”. I guess I will have to take that back, because I didn't say, “and I quote”.

The FFAW and One Ocean received a presentation of eight slides for less than a half-hour on October 13, I think it was. They didn't have any opportunity to provide feedback, and they weren't even requested to provide any comments in writing.

Do you call that consultation?

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

As you pointed out, it was not my department, Environment and Climate Change Canada, that was responsible for that part. The Impact Assessment Agency of Canada has done consultations on the regional impact assessment for offshore wind development. Those consultations ran over a two-year period, roughly.

Is that right, Terence?