Natural Resources Committee on Oct. 20th, 2025

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Duguid]

I call this meeting to order.

Let me start, as I always do, by acknowledging that we are on the unceded territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe nation.

This is meeting number seven of the Standing Committee on Natural Resources. As you know, the meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the Standing Orders. We have a number of folks on Zoom today, including one of our committee members.

I would like to make a few comments for the benefit of witnesses and members.

For those participating by video conference, click on the microphone icon to activate your mic, and please mute yourself when you are not speaking. Also, at the bottom of your screen you can select the appropriate channel for interpretation: floor, English or French. For those in the room, you can use the earpiece and select the desired channel.

I'll give a reminder that all comments should be addressed through the chair.

Do remember, everyone, our incredible interpreters and take it easy on their ears. When you're not using your earpiece, place it on the decal in front of you, and please try not to speak too quickly.

Before we start, colleagues, at our last meeting we talked about the number of witnesses that we had to accommodate, and we are absolutely going to need a seventh meeting. Some of your top-priority witnesses that we saved and scheduled to the end will be able to make it if we have that last meeting. We also need to give drafting instructions to our amazing analysts, so we will need that meeting.

Then we will start the forestry study promptly on the Thursday. We're lining up witnesses, and this gives the clerk a little bit more time to line up some panels, colleagues. With your leave, we will proceed in that fashion.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted on Thursday, September 18, the committee will resume its study of the development of critical minerals in Canada.

I would like to welcome our witnesses, both online and in person.

We have Mark Tory, president and CEO of Defense Metals Corporation; Jeff Stibbard, CEO of JDS Mining and Energy; and Robin Goad, president and CEO of Fortune Minerals Limited.

You will each have five minutes for your opening remarks. We're going to start with Mr. Tory.

You have the floor, sir.

[Mark Tory, President and Chief Executive Officer, Defense Metals Corp.]

Thank you, Mr. Chair and members of the committee, for the opportunity to speak with you today.

My name is Mark Tory. I'm president and CEO of Defense Metals Corporation. I have over 30 years of experience in the resources industry and nearly 11 years in rare earths. I moved to Canada in January of this year just to take this role.

Defense Metals is a Canadian company focused on developing rare earth elements, REE. Our flagship project is the 100%-owned Wicheeda rare earth element project, which is about 80 kilometres from Prince George in British Columbia.

Wicheeda is one of the most advanced high-grade rare earth projects in North America, and outside of MP Materials, which is an operating rare earth mine in the U.S., it is the only North American rare earth company with reserves, not just resources.

An April 2025 prefeasibility study, PFS, confirmed our strong economics and world-class mineralogy. Our rare earth concentrate is among the highest grades globally, with excellent recoveries. The deposit is rich in neodymium and praseodymium, which are two essential elements used in the permanent magnets in electric vehicle motors, as well as in wind turbines, military applications, clean tech and robotics.

One of our advantages is our location and the infrastructure around it. We're accessible by road, we're near rail, we have hydro power and gas lines, and we're not too far from the port of Prince Rupert. We also have a skilled local workforce in the Prince George region.

Our project is ready now for the next step, which is the definitive feasibility study, DFS. We have completed the PFS and we've done the hydrometallurgical pilot plant test work, with product sampling. We're in commercial discussions with numerous downstream processors. With proper support, we hope to keep 100% of the value chain in Canada, including all hydrometallurgical separation. We've signed an MOU with a European processor to buy a significant share of Wicheeda's future production.

Indigenous partnership is at the heart of our project. We signed a codesign agreement with the Mcleod Lake Indian Band in 2023, and in 2024 the McLeod Lake Indian Band became an equity partner, acquiring 2.6 million shares in Defense Metals. This is a real and growing partnership and a model for economic reconciliation.

We also have strong support from the Province of British Columbia. The B.C. Minister of Mining has written in support of our critical minerals infrastructure fund application, and the premier has been engaged and vocally supportive. Overall, the government has recognized the project as one of very high interest, and the project is seen as vital to B.C.'s clean economy and reconciliation goals.

Our ask today is clear and time sensitive. Companies in our situation need investment to complete critical work, such as the DFS. This funds key engineering, permitting, environmental and technical studies, and without this step Canadian projects risk delay while allies and competitors move ahead.

Price floors, as are being contemplated, are also a good policy. This will help protect against unfair Chinese competition and their attempts to quash our industry until a market pricing system is in place outside of China. These price floors would improve project economics, helping the full investment decision, and attract external investment.

China currently controls over 70% of global rare earths and over 90% of the downstream industries. They've imposed new export restrictions, and Canada has named rare earths as a critical mineral priority. Now we need action. Wicheeda is Canada's opportunity to build a domestic REE supply chain from mine to magnet. We're ready to lead this effort with our partners, but we can't do it alone and we need the federal government working with our allies to make it happen.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Duguid]

Thank you, Mr. Tory. You're a brave man to move to Canada in January.

We go on now to Mr. Stibbard. You have five minutes.

[Jeff Stibbard, Executive Chairman, JDS Energy and Mining Inc.]

Thanks, Mr. Chair and members of the committee.

It's good to see you all today. Thanks for inviting me to testify before this committee.

I come today to add value and support to this important Canadian initiative. I look forward to our collective efforts yielding tangible actions and outcomes that enable us to increase responsible, profitable resource development in all categories of the Canadian mineral resource sector, including strategic minerals.

I might add that by Canada's definition, there are about 32 strategic minerals. In the United States, there are about 55. In Canada, we're lucky to have an abundance of these.

Allow me to introduce myself. I'm a professional mining engineer. I've been doing this for 40-plus years in Canada throughout the north and from coast to coast, as well as around the world. I founded a company called JDS Energy and Mining, based in Vancouver, B.C., acting as consultants and contractors to the global mining industry.

My experience includes designing, building, financing, permitting, operating and reclaiming mines in Canada and worldwide, both as a contractor to and direct owner of these mining assets.

I have had the opportunity and pleasure to be directly involved in the senior leadership and development of several of Canada's premier mining assets, including the Ekati diamond mine, the Albian Sands oil sands mine, and many others in the energy, copper, gold, silver, lead, zinc and zirconium space.

Our portfolio of mining projects includes major equity partnership interests with local first nations that continue to advance capacity and trust in this important aspect of our industry.

My input today is based on my own personal observations from working in the Canadian resource industry. I have had the terrific experience of living in 12 northern towns across the country. I want to see other young Canadians from all parts of the country experience the exceptional career opportunities, diverse lifestyles and cultures coming together to make strong communities, strong families and strong individuals.

I see this path continually threatened by misguided government leadership, with platitudes, expanding bureaucracy and a deficit of understanding and inspiration of the benefits and the perceived risks of the industry. Frankly, we don't need any more programs, committees or processes; we need fewer. We can look to our past to go forward.

We need to update Canadians on the mining and critical mineral opportunities that we presently have, which are well documented both provincially and federally. I believe that many of these resource opportunities are stranded and yet potentially commercial in their near term, requiring political leadership willing to lead the initiative to make them commercial. Specifically, I mean mineral assets north of the 60th parallel that are logistically stranded due to lack of energy, an example being Izok Lake, and technically stranded as a result of Canada falling behind in investment in the processing technology that is necessary to be competitive worldwide. We haven't built a new copper smelter, something we need to do, and we have limited leaching initiatives, REE processing, which we just heard about, and zirconium and hafnium processing.

These assets are also politically stranded because of narrow platitudes defining unrealistic outcomes born beyond our borders and our willingness to follow along on this path. UNDRIP would be an example.

They are also socio-economically stranded, as current education misinforms and underreaches potential young industry participants and local stakeholders about what is current and what we can be, the true future benefits and impacts.

There is a lack of forward-looking, empowered leadership. Leadership inspiration lays out the case for growing individual, community and national potential. Northern and offshore oil and gas resource discoveries previously shut in or under a moratorium are critical to resource development success. Vast resources are shut in due to lack of infrastructure. Large-scale power production and distribution—roads, ports, rails and purpose-built communities—are all required for the industry.

The stats for the Canadian mining and mineral sector are well known. The value is over $117 billion, or 4% of the Canadian GDP. Adding in oil brings us close to 8%. As for employment, over 430,000 are directly involved in the mining business; indirectly, there are another 280,000, or up to 700,000 people. One in every 28 jobs in Canada relies on mining, so I don't have to explain how important it is. We export a record $151 billion of mining products, of which gold is the top-ranked mineral value, with production valued at $14 billion. Today, it's probably twice that.

As for critical minerals as a subset, in 2023, $30 billion was contributed to the economy by critical minerals, and nearly 55,000 people were employed in that.

In terms of overall stability, despite global economic challenges and health challenges because of the global pandemic, mining remains a stable and significant part of the Canadian economy. Mines remained unshuttered throughout the pandemic and even expanded. The contribution from mining has remained consistently stable throughout Canada since 2011.

What has changed?

Canada usually works best when the two levels of government stick to their constitutional lanes. Mineral resource development is a provincial domain and should remain so.

The effects of the federal government, such as Bill C-69, the carbon tax, pollution abatement and energy regulation, have hampered the attractiveness of our industry. Let's honestly and comprehensively dive into these negative effects and undo them to the benefit of Canada and not be sidelined with this worldwide competitive space and source of real wealth creation. Canada can and must be a leading producer of strategic minerals.

On opportunities to improve our resource production business, value exists by embracing examples of best-in-class modern socio-economic resource development, such as what's carried out in Norway in the LNG space; Swedish copper-smelting technology; co-operative transprovincial infrastructure; and public-private development in the likes of co-development of necessary mining infrastructure, with the necessary military infrastructure as a support.

The construction of Far North ports, modern communities, ocean, air, road and rail transportation logistics, energy fuels, energy production, communications, education and affordable living all can be examples of codependent industry, government and military priority. I'll give as examples the towns of Yellowknife, Fort McMurray and Tumbler Ridge, towns born out of industry.

It's a call to action. It's important to industry to lead based on best perspective to define the technical requirements and economic outcomes. Government must provide the impetus to bring the industry to the table with a clear pathway of increased, immediate and attractive opportunity, of nation-building that is profitable, and without ambiguous external threats and barriers to success.

The timeline to development is currently unacceptable. This is primarily a result of an overly bureaucratic process of review—

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Duguid]

Mr. Stibbard, I will ask you to finish up. I know there will be questions where you can bring out the rest of your thoughts.

You're already two minutes over. Just out of respect for other witnesses, why don't you take 30 seconds to finish up?

[Jeff Stibbard]

The timeline to development—which is the most important threat—is currently unacceptable and primarily the result of the overly bureaucratic process of review and input considerations. This leads to uncertainty of approval and in turn becomes a serious risk to economic outcomes and drives investment away at the earliest and most critical stage of a project's gestation—it's unattractive.

I built the Ekati mine in 1994. It was discovered in 1992, geologically determined in 1994 and in operation by 1998. That mine—five years, really, from geological exploration to construction and operation—created an industry that generated over 80% of the GDP of the Northwest Territories. That is never going to be matched again. It created an industry.

That's the timeline we'd like to get back to instead of today's timeline of 10 to 15 years, which drives away business.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Duguid]

Thank you for your testimony. It was very interesting.

We have one more witness.

Mr. Goad, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Robin Goad, President and Chief Executive Officer, Fortune Minerals Limited]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the rest of the committee.

Just on point from Jeff's very detailed presentation, I have provided a detailed PowerPoint. It was sent to you on Friday. I understand that it's in translation and you probably have not received that, but I couldn't possibly deliver in five minutes all the recommendations I would have. Right now, I'm going to concentrate on just telling you a little bit about who we are and also will concentrate on the high notes.

My name is Robin Goad. I'm the president and CEO of Fortune Minerals Limited. We're a Toronto Stock Exchange listed company that owns the vertically integrated NICO cobalt-gold-bismuth-copper project, which comprises a planned mine and concentrator up in the Northwest Territories and a hydrometallurgical refinery just outside Edmonton, Alberta, which will process our concentrates through to value-added products.

One of the highlights I'd like to mention is the importance of administering and processing—I'll touch on that a little later—because if we don't process our minerals here in Canada, then they're lost. In simply producing concentrates and shipping those to Asia, we don't have custody and control of the metals, and therefore those metals are not available for our industry here in Canada, which is really the most important thing we're trying to achieve in incubating a critical minerals industry here in Canada.

Our project has a 20-year mineral reserve, but being an IOCG-type deposit—that stands for “iron oxide copper-gold”—analogous to the giant Olympic Dam mine in Australia, we have the opportunity to find a billion tonnes of metal realistically. Right now, we have a 20-year reserve, which will be the primary source of feed for the hydrometallurgical refinery in the Edmonton area.

We also have a process collaboration with Rio Tinto, where we will take waste residues from the Kennecott smelter in Utah and process those through to value-added products in Edmonton. It's another good example of “build it and they will come”. Having downstream or mid-stream processing here in Canada will attract other sources of feeds to be processed and available to our industry.

Our project is very advanced. We've spent $150 million to date and are in the process of updating our bankable feasibility study, FEED engineering and, as well, doing some metallurgical optimization.

Three critical minerals are hosted in the deposit, cobalt being traditionally the most dominant metal, but we also have 1.1 million ounces of gold, which today is worth just a little over $5 billion Canadian on the ground.

We have the largest deposit of bismuth in the world, with 12% of global reserves. That's an important metal used in environmental applications, as well as some important defence applications.

The cobalt, of course, will go into rechargeable batteries, which will enable the energy transition and transformation of the auto industry to e-mobility.

We were the very first Canadian project to receive a U.S. Department of Defense grant, and that was quickly matched by the Canadian government. We have about $17 million in support coming primarily from the U.S. Department of Defense and Natural Resources Canada. We also have a small grant that comes from Alberta Innovates, so the Government of Alberta is also contributing to our project.

We have tremendous support for our projects through indigenous relationships. We have co-operation agreements with the Tłı̨chǫ, who have a settled land claim with the governments of Canada and the Northwest Territories. We're hoping that with the work that's being partially funded by government to get a construction decision in late 2026.

There are a number of recommendations we would like to point out and also some challenges.

Probably just to start off, exploration is a very high-risk industry. Only one in 1,000 projects is successfully developed into a mine. Only one in 3,000 projects is a tier one asset. We've allowed our mining industry to deteriorate, for a number of reasons, and I think the biggest threat to our industry is that we don't have a pipeline of new projects to be developed to maintain the knowledge and expertise we've developed here in Canada.

There are certainly challenges with the manipulation of metal prices from China and other actors, so we think there's a role for government in that.

Jeff mentioned the importance of infrastructure development, particularly in Canada's north. We're working in the Northwest Territories. We think that's very important in developing projects in the north, where 45% of GDP comes from the resource industry.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Duguid]

Mr. Goad, we're at time. You'll have a chance to amplify with questions coming from the committee. Thank you.

We will start our round of questions with Mrs. Stubbs.

Mrs. Stubbs, go ahead for six minutes.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

I appreciate all the witnesses being here. I encourage everyone to submit written submissions for the consideration of the committee. As one witness pointed out, the time constraints on substantive conversations are always crazy here.

Thank you all for being here. All of you, to some degree or another, have pointed out how critical mineral development in Canada is being held back by government red tape and bureaucracy but is also absolutely inextricably linked with national security, job creation and affordability for all Canadians everywhere.

Mr. Stibbard, given your extensive experience as an individual private sector proponent and also as an adviser, I wonder if it's your general view that the regulatory environment for energy and mining proponents has deteriorated over the last 10 years. I would invite you to expand more on some of your recommendations for clarity and certainty so that big projects can be built by individual private sector proponents and companies, not taxpayers.

[Jeff Stibbard]

Exactly. The answer is yes, it has deteriorated.

As I mentioned, from 1994 to 1998, building Ekati mine and mines shortly thereafter, it was roughly five years from substantial resource discovery—as Robin said, the one in 3,000 number—to construction. Today that number is more like 15 years. As Robin pointed out quite accurately, the problem is that a lot of money goes into the exploration and it might not ever come back out. There's a big risk just on the odds. If you know you're faced with 15 years of regulatory review for a lot of inputs that aren't necessarily reflective of the area or the impacts on the area, people just turn away. We're not attractive, when you can imagine that's all Canada needs to be.

We used to be attractive. That's why I'm here today. I'm trying to make Canada mining attractive for outside investors to come. We need a lot of capital. That's really the number one threat to our success.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

The same government several years ago announced a so-called critical minerals strategy, but as you've pointed out, Canada has fallen far behind major global mining competitors. We're in a race to get to global markets.

Do you have comments on the disproportionate red tape or timelines that proponents face in Canada as compared with, say, the United States or other major global mining competitors?

[Jeff Stibbard]

First of all, we have the two levels of government, provincial and federal, and the federal process makes us consider things that are almost coast to coast in potential impact. It's not relevant. Again, you don't need to cast the net that wide to see that. I get it that we're one Canadian economy and that this is what it all rolls up to, but we're a microcosm of culture and economies across the way. Certain people do things differently in other parts of the region. We do not break the law. That's the rule. Whether they be provincial or federal, that's standard. But we don't need to get input from all corners of the country, including on things like gender and the likes of that. Those are just way too deep for people to consider all the potential impacts that might be reflected.

I can tell you that the mining business is very progressive in terms of employment of males, females and others. I personally experienced the changes throughout my career of over 42 years in the mining business. The workforce has changed. The participation of people has changed, including first nations being directly involved as direct owners. Over 14,000 first nations in Canada make their living in the mining business directly. It's the largest employer of first nations by any sector.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

Exactly.

[Jeff Stibbard]

We don't need to be told by up high or out east, with all due respect, how we should manage our affairs. That's a big impediment, and it's an impediment to investment. I work around the world. About 50% of my business is outside Canada. People outside Canada ask me all the time what's happening, and I can't tell them. I can't tell them what our direction is anymore.

That is an impediment, real or perceived, and a bit of both. We need to correct that. We need to put our shoulders to the wheel, correct the process, make it simple, make it rigorous as far as its outcome and win. We need to win the attractiveness game so that we can bring the capital here.

I just finished building a diamond mine in south Africa, in Botswana, and it was the same thing: It was start to finish in five years.

What I was doing 30 years ago in Canada—

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

In Canada, today, it takes 15 to 18.

[Jeff Stibbard]

Yes. I have to make a living. My employees have to be working. I have to go where the money is. I'd prefer not to.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

That's the reality. That's the travesty. The government-imposed red tape and roadblocks drive jobs and investment like yours into other countries.

Would you say that part of the actual fix would be to fix and to repeal bills like Bill C-69, which stand in the way of infrastructure being built up? For example, the Ring of Fire is led, and was initiated, by first nations, yet it's Bill C-69 that is holding back even that basic infrastructure and other development. Are there any other recommendations you would make to increase the timelines so that big projects can actually get built in Canada?

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Duguid]

You have 30 seconds.

[Jeff Stibbard]

I guess I could. I have them written down. I can submit them to you, so I'll not stumble through that.

I just want to add one other aspect to it and that's the inspiration of young people in Canada—southerners looking north and realizing that the north is our future. It was our front door when the explorers came here. That's how they came here. We need to look back at that again. When the fur trade fizzled out, we moved south, but we have to get back to that, and we have to inspire young people.

If you can't afford a property in Toronto or Vancouver, move north. Get some experience. Make a good living. Enjoy yourself. Meet some people from all over the country and build Canada. That's what we have to do. That comes from education at the university level, the high school level, the elementary school level and in the communities. The government needs to enforce that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Duguid]

Thank you both.

We're on to Mr. McKinnon for six minutes.

Mr. McKinnon.

[Ron McKinnon, Liberal, Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

I was going to talk about regulations, but I think Ms. Stubbs has dealt with that fairly well.

Mr. Tory, I'm going to ask you about the Wicheeda mine. You mentioned that China has 70% of the world's minerals in critical mineral production. I wonder how we can make projects such as Wicheeda take a substantial chunk of that business. What is standing in the way?

[Mark Tory]

It's a great question. From our PFS that we did for Wicheeda, our output would be roughly 7% to 9% of global production. It is a significant operation.

Obviously, we've already talked about regulations in relation to permitting. That's obviously one thing that could be a stumbling block for us. The second part also comes from that first part in relation it permitting. It's the attraction of money to be able to build it.

I'm not one of these people who sits here, puts their hands out to the government and says that you have to help us in relation to funding this. It's obviously nice to get support from the government, but at the end of the day, we have to attract enough investors who think the project is attractive and is going to be up and running as quickly as possible.

Everyone wants cash flow. Everyone wants to get the cash flow, and if they think the project itself is not going to be cash flow-positive in five to 10 years down the track because of permitting issues or anything else like that, we don't attract the investment to be able to build it. From our PFS, we're talking about a $1.4-billion capital project.

[Ron McKinnon, Liberal, Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Would you suggest that we streamline the permitting process to make that more effective and faster?

[Mark Tory]

Absolutely. Part of my discussions in the nine months I've been here in Canada is trying to get things in relation to permitting to move concurrently so that it does hasten the permitting process.

Again, it's still working within the parameters of making sure that you have the support of the local community and that you're doing everything right within the environment. We're not trying to run over anyone in relation to environmental standards or communities. We want all of that to be ticked off as well. We just want it to be done quicker.