Official Languages Committee on Dec. 6th, 2006

[Raymond Simard, Liberal, Saint Boniface, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to welcome our guests.

Mr. Denis, you raised a very interesting point. One of the things the committee has been discussing for a several days in various provinces is that each time the federal government signs an agreement with the provinces, this agreement should include a language clause under which an envelope would be devoted solely to francophones. Is this what you are talking about? In many cases, there is some catching up to do.

[Wilfrid Denis]

This is the kind of initiative that should be implemented. We need to realize that, since the 1960s, action has been taken mainly in areas of federal jurisdiction. However, we realize that people live in areas under provincial jurisdiction and above all in the day-to-day. We need to find a way to ensure that French is not only an official language, but also a national language. In order to do this, communities and the federal government need to make a concerted effort to increase the visibility of the French language across Canada, particularly in regions where this language is weaker.

[Raymond Simard, Liberal, Saint Boniface, MB]

We note that where there is good provincial cooperation, francophone communities are much more successful. But this shouldn't necessarily be solely left to the provinces.

My next question is for Mr. Dubé. When we talk about Saskatchewan we often think that francophones are scattered here and there and that this is a challenge. Yesterday, we were in Edmonton: a French neighbourhood is beginning to take root there. There is an area, with the Faculté Saint-Jean and the Centre Saint-Thomas, where there is a critical mass of physical infrastructure that is important to the francophonie. Once established, this can no longer be taken away. Does this exist in Regina or Saskatoon? What challenge does this pose for health care, when clinics have to be set up throughout the province?

[Michel Dubé]

This is increasingly true. There is a certain amount of migration from rural areas to larger communities such as Regina or Saskatoon, and to a certain extent to Prince Albert. We are trying to create a dynamic centre in the various communities. One of the best ways to do this is to have service centres, school community centres, that, in partnership, can provide more and more services that meet the needs of individuals living in communities who come not only from rural areas but also from other countries and other Canadian provinces. I think that it is absolutely essential to create this centre, this atmosphere so that people feel properly welcomed and properly served.

[Raymond Simard, Liberal, Saint Boniface, MB]

Is there a neighbourhood in Regina that is considered as the French neighbourhood, or are francophones scattered throughout the city?

[Denis Desgagné, Executive Director, Assemblée communautaire fransaskoise]

No. Given the size and scattered nature of this population, this is a challenge. We are working to develop these communities as a whole, be they rural or urban. In a rural setting, it is often more difficult to bring people together. In an urban setting, we take a number of different approaches. For example, in Saskatoon, there is an urban village. It is unfortunate, but often people take a one-size-fits-all approach and Saskatchewan is asked to do what everyone else is doing. For example, in Saskatoon or in Regina, we're trying to create a community space. This is probably why much more time was needed to implement school community centres in Saskatoon. There are two school community centres there. This is a different challenge. With regard to the health care, we need to think differently; we need to find different and planned solutions for Saskatchewan. That is why the asymmetrical approach is absolutely essential in this case.

[Raymond Simard, Liberal, Saint Boniface, MB]

Mr. Ferré, please.

[Denis Ferré]

I am probably the one at this table who complains the most, but I take pleasure in this.

In 2003, our provincial government had approved the creation of a school in Saskatoon, but we had to wait at least three more years before the federal government supported us with a community envelope. There were three elections, and I accept this, but our community had to spend numerous hours and travel a number of times to Ottawa to push forward this essential project. It is almost unforgivable to ask an extremely fragile community to wait three years. Furthermore, we are talking about 2003 dollars and not 2006 dollars.

[Raymond Simard, Liberal, Saint Boniface, MB]

Manitoba has been working for 15 years to get a school community centre. I know exactly what you are talking about.

[Denis Ferré]

This caused a great deal of frustration; however, we have four school community centres within the school board. This is nothing to sneeze at.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Yvon Godin]

Thank you.

Mr. Blaney.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Lévis—Bellechasse, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

First, I want to thank you for welcoming us here. I am pleased to be here with you. I am from Quebec. The anglophone minority in Quebec has its own institutions and schools. This trip is an eye opener for me. This is our third city in three days. Tonight, we will be in Winnipeg. The battles you are waging, particularly to have your own schools, are the key to your development. I am inspired by this, and I'm also pleased that your school will be expanded, even if the announcement was late in coming.

Now, I want to ask you a question. Mr. Denis, I really liked your comment on the difference between an official language and a national language. If I understand your comment correctly, there need to be institutions throughout the country, and the federal government must consider its responsibility toward linguistic minorities as something that goes beyond its own area of jurisdiction. It must not interfere in areas under provincial jurisdiction, but it must accompany the provinces in their efforts.

I want to ask Mr. Sarny a question about post-secondary education. You explained that you had to justify your presence at the University of Regina. Could you tell me more about this?

[Dominique Sarny]

First, I should explain that the University of Regina has existed since the end of the 1960s or the early 1970s, and that since that time, the campus has had a francophone presence.

The problem—and this is the challenge we are facing—is that for over 30 years now, the campus has had no francophone roots, because the heads of the university, who are mainly anglophones, have not been made aware or are not sensitive to the importance of developing French.

Why then does this work? Because it has to work. This time, the community is the one who built the institute. In the past, the university imposed or, at the very least, modeled an institutional framework within the university. This was a university institution with departments and programs. This time, a completely different approach has been taken. The community said that this wasn't working to its benefit, that it had worked to create an educational institution and that it now needed to have access to post-secondary education. So, the community proposed an approach to the university, and following negotiations, this was successful.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Lévis—Bellechasse, QC]

What opportunities exist for your graduates, and what are the spinoffs for the francophone community within the province and for the public in general?

[Dominique Sarny]

First, with regard to the students, we face the following challenge: we don't have a choice or a selection of programs. Essentially, our students are in education. They complete a professional program with close ties to the school community. The program has a good reputation in western Canada for attracting students from throughout the western provinces. So this is a professional program.

However, because French is not the mother tongue of the majority of our students and because we have seen an increase in enrolment in immersion programs, we are not able to meet the needs of these students. Parents and students come to see us, but we don't have enough programs to meet the needs.

Also, we are trying to create programs that meet both the needs of students and their parents and the needs of the francophone community. We have identified two types of more general programs: a francophone studies program—which is more classical and provided within the university, offered along with partners, particularly Quebec—and a community development studies program that we are currently implementing and that meets these needs.

Because the population is scattered, and we talked about this earlier, we have been forced to innovate. We are not different. We have been forced to innovate from within. All the bridges we build, all the work and the research that we have implemented with various partners from coast to coast contribute to community development. Each researcher who works within the French institute, whether from Moncton, Ottawa or British Columbia, must conduct research that establishes a comparative basis with one of the realities facing our francophonie.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Yvon Godin]

You have only 30 seconds.

[Wilfrid Denis]

I want to speak to the matter of institutional atrophy.

It is important to understand that, in Saskatchewan, the Franco-Saskatchewanian community has no control over any post-secondary training institution. Therefore, it is extremely important for us to have an institution such as the Institut français in Regina.

We must also recognize that the universities jealously protect their autonomy. The only thing we have at the University of Regina is a community advisory committee, which has no control over the institute as such; it belongs to the University of Regina.

The next step will be to try to find ways of increasing the community's control over the institution within the university structure.

The University of Saskatchewan is limiting itself to a small modern languages department and is not offering anything else to the Franco-Saskatchewanian community.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Yvon Godin]

Now I want to speak. Usually, I would be sitting next to Mr. Murphy and I would have already spoken.

Mr. Denis, you said that there were no post-secondary schools.

[Wilfrid Denis]

We have programs, but we don't have any schools. We do not control any universities or colleges, such as the Faculté Saint-Jean or the Collège universitaire de Saint-Boniface. The only thing we have is the Institut français. We are really happy to have it, but we have less control over the institute than francophones have over the Collège universitaire de Saint-Boniface in Manitoba.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Yvon Godin]

What is the francophone population in Saskatchewan?

[Wilfrid Denis]

Saskatchewan has 19,000 people with French as their mother tongue, but 54,000 who speak French. As Dominique said, a vast majority of their students are bilingual anglophones, somewhat like at the Faculté Saint-Jean in Edmonton. So it is a matter of considering the common interests of those who speak French, including those whose mother tongue is French and those who speak French as a second language.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Yvon Godin]

Earlier, we talked about early childhood education. Could you give us more details?

[Roger Gauthier]

We feel that all the representations we have made over the past few years on early childhood education have been exceptional with regard to progress.

In our opinion, early childhood not only marks the starting point for language learning, but also the starting point for a child's learning and development. The Franco-Saskatchewanian community has invested heavily in schools, in the Franco-Saskatchewanian parent association and workers to ensure the integration of all early childhood services.

Clearly, the federal government's decision to abolish the federal-provincial childcare agreement has had a significant impact. I am the Director of the Franco-Saskatchewanian Parent Association and I am involved in the network. As parents belonging to the association, we feel that it is important for parents to be involved in their children's education.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Yvon Godin]

Could you expand on what the government is saying about this? Perhaps you will hear it later. Dialogue leads to understanding. This is written in the report. The government said that, although this is the way it is, it was going to create a number of additional childcare spots.

Based on what you are saying, these cuts to childcare are affecting you.

What stage were you at and what impact will these cuts have?

[Roger Gauthier]

With the provincial government, we had positioned ourselves as a childcare development model in terms of the integration of services such as the development of educational centres or day care, preschools, play groups, resource centres and family and child support centres. This is what we were working on.

The province said that it was open to our model for intervention: it would even like to implement it throughout the province. We believe that learning and childcare go hand in hand.

Things came to a halt for us, but the province did not say that it was going to abandon this approach; it said that it would proceed progressively.

We feel that a progressive implementation is difficult, because there are only a limited number of years—the years of early childhood—to support children in their development. The community supports the parents with regard to development. The families do the work, but we also need to do the work.

We will certainly not stop promoting our early childhood development strategy, but if we had the federal government contribution that was promised in the agreement, we would be able to move forward much more quickly and we would be able to ensure a much more institutional and organized approach.