Official Languages Committee on May 3rd, 2007

[The Chair, Conservative, Guy Lauzon]

The meeting will now resume in public.

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the meeting of the Standing Committee on Official Languages.

We would like to welcome some special guests this morning.

I'd like to introduce our invited guests this morning. We have Brad Pascal, Bob Nicholson, René Marcil, Jacques Paquette, and Tom Scrimger.

Welcome to all of you.

We are going to be dealing, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), with a study of the explanation of the decision to name Shane Doan captain of Team Canada at the world championships.

We will begin with 10-minute presentations. Then we will have a few rounds of questions, with the first being a seven-minute round.

We're going to be very, very strict with the seven minutes when questions are being answered, because we want to make sure all members get their allotted time.

We will begin with Mr. Paquette.

[Jacques Paquette, Associate Deputy Minister, International and Intergovernmental Affairs and Sports, Department of Canadian Heritage]

Good morning.

Thank you for inviting me to this important meeting. I will just say a few words, if I may.

To begin with, I would like to correct some information that appeared in the newspapers. Sport Canada, as such, is a branch within the International and Intergovernmental Affairs and Sport sector of the Department of Canadian Heritage. The employees in that branch report to me. So I am accompanied this morning by Tom Scrimger, Director General of the Sport Canada branch.

Sport Canada's main role is to support high-level sports excellence and the development of the sporting system as a way to strengthen the unique contribution that sports bring to our identity, culture and society as Canadians.

The Canadian government supports the Canadian sports policy, which has been adopted by the federal, provincial and territorial governments. Through a set of agreements, we contribute to independent non-governmental organizations such as national sports associations, including Hockey Canada.

The contribution agreement with Sport Canada stipulates the activities for which sports organizations receive support and the conditions that apply. This funding enables organizations to promote the development of athletes, coaches and referees, as well as the development of sport within Canada and at the international level. National sports organizations administer the development of their sport.

I will be pleased to answer any questions you have, including questions about our approach to official languages and other aspects. That is the introduction that I wanted to give you this morning.

[The Chair, Conservative, Guy Lauzon]

Thank you, Mr. Paquette.

Before moving to questions, I will give the floor to the Hockey Canada representatives.

Who will be speaking on behalf of Hockey Canada? Will it be Mr. Nicholson?

[Bob Nicholson, President and Chief Executive Officer, Hockey Canada]

It will be me, along with the chairman of our board, René Marcil.

[The Chair, Conservative, Guy Lauzon]

Thank you very much.

Whoever wants to go first can proceed.

[Bob Nicholson]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

I'm here representing Hockey Canada and the 4.2 million people who are involved in the game of hockey in our country. I respect the process here. We want to make sure that we give you the role of Hockey Canada.

When you look at hockey in this country, coast to coast, there are many youngsters who play it, from the initiation program up to the Olympic team. Shane Doan is a person who has represented our country eight times. I know there is going to be a lot of discussion about Shane Doan and how he was named to the team and named captain, but I just want to take a moment to talk about the speak-out program that we work with from coast to coast in this country. We're very proud of it. We've spent over $2 million on this program to make sure we have an environment that is safe for all our young players, coaches, and officials to participate in this game, and to make sure that we're looking at the harassment side, so that, if it's there, we have a process to deal with it on a day-to-day basis. This is something that I, as a staff person, and our board are proud of.

Also, it was an allegation that was made about Shane Doan, and we want to make sure that we understand that it was an allegation. We have done our research on this and feel very comfortable with the information we have today. We hope we are here to show you why we are 100% behind the naming of Shane Doan to the team, and as the captain of this team. It's very important for our team now playing in Russia. I really feel it is very important for our country.

[René Marcil, Chairman of the Board, Hockey Canada]

On behalf of the Hockey Canada board, I am going to briefly outline everybody's role so that you can better understand our organization's decision-making process.

Personally, I have been involved with hockey, as a volunteer, for 38 years. I was the president of Hockey Quebec for eight years and I was one of the people who advocated for French to be given its rightful place within Hockey Canada. I think it is important that you fully appreciate our situation.

This morning, we would like to explain to members of the Standing Committee on Official Languages all that we have done to ensure that French speakers have full access to Hockey Canada. We have made a tremendous effort over the past few years. If you check with Sport Canada, you will see that we have invested a lot of time, energy and money to ensure that French speakers have access to the services they need.

Since 1992, our organization has provided simultaneous interpretation for French speakers attending Hockey Canada's annual and bi-annual general meetings. A few years ago, we had problems with regard to our documentation. We therefore decided to employ a full-time translator to ensure that French speakers had access to the documents at the same time as English speakers. We also instigated a selection mechanism for trainers and other key people. Bob is responsible for ensuring that it operates as it should. Our priority is to have French speakers to support our French-speaking players.

In addition, a large number of jobs in Calgary and Ottawa have been advertised from coast-to-coast, and we try to employ francophones to ensure the success of our succession planning. Furthermore, some 15 months ago, Mr. Nicholson gave Calgary employees the opportunity to take French lessons. I wanted to be clear that we have implemented nation-wide measures to ensure that the French language is respected. There has been good cooperation on this issue.

I myself did not speak English five years ago, but I was still allowed to sit on the executive committee. I took English classes and today, even if my English is not perfect, I am proud to be your Canadian representative. Luckily, my colleagues trusted me and supported me in my work. That is the spirit that we are trying to foster in Hockey Canada.

The matter we are here to discuss today is very close to our hearts. I would like to draw your attention to an important point. A few months ago, before the Olympic Games, allegations were laid that made us not defend ourselves, but answer questions. As Canadians, we base our selection on building the best teams possible so that we can win championships for all Canadians. Having the team distracted by other issues does not help our cause. And that is a shame.

We are delighted to be here with you today and we want to answer your questions. However, once again, our teams are being distracted by this issue. I just wanted to underscore that it is bad timing, although I recognize that it is important for us to talk. It is unfortunate, because we invest time and money in our players, teams and volunteers. I think that we should all be proud of our teams and support them. Regardless of what else is said today, as the chair of the board, that is what I believe to be the key message.

As chairman of the board, I am responsible for strategic planning and direction, as well as our financial results. As for Mr. Nicholson, he is responsible for the day-to-day running of Hockey Canada. I can assure you that the Hockey Canada board is 100% behind the decisions Mr. Nicholson has made.

This morning, he is going to clearly explain to you the decision that Hockey Canada made and the process used to reach that decision.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Guy Lauzon]

Thank you very much, Mr. Marcil.

I also wish to emphasize that I too am very proud of our hockey team as it heads into the World Ice Hockey Championship. I am francophone as well. You have learned English; I, for one, am trying to learn French.

We are going to move on to our first round of questions asked by members. Each member has seven minutes. I'm going to be very strict on the time; I may even have to interrupt in mid-sentence.

Ms. Folco.

[Raymonde Folco, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, gentlemen, for having come and for responding so quickly to our call. We appreciate it, and we know that this is an important time not only for yourselves, but for all Canadians.

Personally, I recognize that hockey is a sport that brings all Canadians together, whether they speak French or English. It is our national sport, and perhaps even more than that. Hockey is one aspect of our national identity. We all recognize this, and it is important to us.

I would like to add that the members of this committee had a long discussion earlier on the pros and cons of inviting you to come here, on the one hand, and the kinds of questions we would ask you, on the other hand.

I would like to remark that the decision to invite you to come here and talk to us this morning was a unanimous decision on the part of all the members present. That includes all the political parties in the House of Commons. I want to make that remark.

I would like to add, also, that this parliamentary committee on official languages, and this particular meeting of the parliamentary committee, is not a Star Chamber. It is not Parliament telling a non-governmental agency or a non-governmental association how to operate. It is not our role to do this. It is not our role to tell Hockey Canada specifically who they should name as captain of Team Canada. It is not our role to do this at all.

Because Sport Canada receives a substantial amount of money from the Canadian government, and I know last year alone you received $3.2 million--that's a substantial amount of money--it is our role as a government, as a Parliament, to ask you how this money is spent as an oversight by the government, and how you come to certain decisions. This is well within our role to ask you. This is what I would like to say in the beginning.

The recent controversy over Mr. Shane Doan--we are all very much aware of it. We are not a tribunal; it is not in our power. It is not our intention. We are a standing committee of Parliament.

But I would nonetheless like to ask you a question. I am delighted that your presentation is in both official languages. I thank you for that.

How many French speakers make up Team Canada? Can you tell me how team members are chosen, as well as how the captain of Team Canada is chosen?

It is a basic question which will allow us to then continue this discussion.

Thank you.

[Bob Nicholson]

Thank you very much for those comments. That is certainly why we are here today. We respect this process and we certainly want to give all the information from Hockey Canada's point of view.

First of all, with regard to the funding that is given from the federal government to Hockey Canada, $3.2 million is correct. This is a large amount of money in a $53 million operation, and that's what our operation is now in Hockey Canada. We're proud that we've been able to grow that with help from the federal government, as well as having a strong business model.

When you look, first of all, at how we name the players to the team, it's a very lengthy process. The very first step in that process is to name the management of the team. When we name the management of this team, we have many great resources. It's a very difficult decision to name the general manager and his assistant general manager.

When you look at the National Hockey League and other areas of hockey, we have so many people to choose from. In this situation, we chose a person who we felt was an excellent role model and an excellent leader in the game of hockey, Steve Yzerman. It was a choice made by me, along with other senior staff people, to name Steve Yzerman.

Then, through discussions with Steve Yzerman, who was going to be his assistant? Steve had many conversations with a lot of people in the National Hockey League, and the decision was to name Jacques Martin as the assistant general manager of the team.

From there, the process is then to name the coaches. Again, we went through a lengthy process to find out which coaches were available. As we know, there are many great coaches who are still playing in the NHL playoffs, as well as players who can't be involved in Team Canada at this time. So Steve Yzerman worked through that process to name the three coaches.

We then start to name the team. Naming this world championship team is a very difficult process, in that we have so many players playing in the National Hockey League, and the ones who are available to us are players who have not made the playoffs. This is a disappointment to them. Many of them have gone through a long season. They have played 80 games. We've had a number of players who have said no to Team Canada for good reasons: personal reasons, family reasons, they're injured.

I can tell you that we had nine French-speaking players who said no.

[The Chair, Conservative, Guy Lauzon]

Mr. Nicholson, I have to stop you there, although I'm sure you'll have a chance to carry on after the next question. I'm sorry for the interruption, but those are the rules.

I will ask Mr. Malo to put the next question.

[Luc Malo, Bloc, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Nicholson, during your presentation, you said that following the allegations that were made against Mr. Doan, you made a certain number of inquiries. I'm simply wondering why you did not believe the linesman, Mr. Cormier, who in his written report said that Mr. Doan said, and I quote, "Fucking Frenchman, did a good job". I ask this question because in the Canadian Strategy for Ethical Conduct in Sport published on May 24, 2002, to which Sport Canada vigorously subscribes, it says that by 2012, "sport officials shall not be interfered with in the execution of their duties..." and even more importantly, "...respected for their decisions by athletes...".

Do you not believe that this statement should have been put into practice as of 2002?

[The Chair, Conservative, Guy Lauzon]

Mr. Nicholson.

[Bob Nicholson]

From the information that I received on this case through the National Hockey League and through players who were playing in that game of hockey, there is no question those words were said on the ice. I don't think anyone is denying that, and that is what the referee reported back to the National Hockey League.

The National Hockey League's investigation clearly shows that was stated, but it also clearly shows that they felt it wasn't Shane Doan, and that's why we are here today to protect Shane Doan. He is a Canadian who, from all the information to date that we've heard, did not say this. We're taking Shane Doan, his wife, his mom and dad, his four kids, through an allegation of something that could have been stated by someone else, and this is not right.

[Luc Malo, Bloc, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

Pardon me, but if I understand correctly, it is important to respect officials sometimes, but not all of the time.

Mr. Marcil, you said earlier that what we are doing here is disturbing. Let me simply remind you that this entire disturbance can be attributed to the fact that Hockey Canada made a decision that was unacceptable to Quebeckers. We had to take a stand in order for equality rights to be respected. Unfortunately, some Canadians were shocked, and as a result, a desperate hockey player has had to explain himself. All of this because Hockey Canada was unable, from its offices located in Calgary, to understand how Quebeckers experience hockey, admire its players, and the importance it places on it. If Hockey Canada had understood that the Bell Centre incident that occurred in December 2005 was not a closed issue for sports fans, then to my mind, we would have never appointed Shane Doan as captain. In light of this entire affair, why don't you heed the very lucid suggestion made by Mr. Doan himself and hand the "C" over to somebody else?

[René Marcil]

Let us clarify a few things. An incident occurred during a match of the National Hockey League, which is our most important partner. Since the NHL launched an inquiry and clearly stated that Mr. Doan did not utter that famous sentence, I do not see why we would not continue working with Shane Doan. These are allegations. The case is before the court, and nothing has been proven. Hockey Canada played its administrative role, and has checked to see if there have been any new developments. When Shane Doan was appointed captain, Mr. Nicholson and myself spoke to one another, went over all the facts to make sure that we were on the right track in order to protect this player. It is important. You're saying that Hockey Canada should have... We, as administrators, try to make the best decisions in order to assemble the best team possible and move in the right direction. All of the debates which have been ongoing for the last 17 months should have ended earlier.

[Luc Malo, Bloc, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

Since this matter is not yet resolved in the minds of sports fans, setting it aside this time wouldn't have done you, nor the team any harm. Why didn't you respect the fans?

[René Marcil]

You're talking about sports fans, but I come from Quebec and we only received two or three phone calls from journalists asking why he had been appointed captain. I did not receive any comments from the people at Hockey Quebec, which is a partner of Hockey Canada. I never received any negative comments. Volunteer organizations, which are capable of organizing, understand the mechanisms.

[Luc Malo, Bloc, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

Would you like me to send you all of the comments that I have received at my office? At this time, taxpayers want to be able to identify with this team, and if I understand you correctly, you do not at all regret what you have done. If you had to start all over, you would make exactly the same decisions.

[René Marcil]

If we had to start all over, I would hope that we would have been able to stop the debate sooner. I think people are trying to stir up controversy. It was only one single incident, and not 15. It happened in the heat of the moment. These comments were not made outside of the ice rink.

[Luc Malo, Bloc, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

You are saying then, that in some cases it is normal to make racist slurs, and at other times, it is not so normal.

[René Marcil]

You are putting words in my mouth.

[Luc Malo, Bloc, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

You are saying that the words were spoken in the heat of the moment and—

[The Chair, Conservative, Guy Lauzon]

Mr. Malo—

[René Marcil]

I would like to answer you, Mr. Malo, but I wish to share a personal anecdote. Last week, I was attacked, as a Quebecker, by some journalist, and my own daughter's reputation was also attacked on the radio because of this situation. Do you think it's normal that Quebeckers would be doing that to fellow Quebeckers? I did not like that situation any better. I believe that the Shane Doan situation should be resolved and that we should await the court decision.