Official Languages Committee on Oct. 1st, 2009

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Good morning, Ms. Kenny. First, I want to congratulate you on your election.

[Marie-France Kenny]

Thank you.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

We are familiar with your lengthy résumé. You are a woman of experience and conviction. You have always been involved in issues that concern communities. It is our opinion that the FCFA is in good hands.

Ms. Bossé, good morning. It's always a pleasure to see you. We must also salute the work done by Ms. Lise Routhier-Boudreau, and everything she has done in the past.

The situation is serious. That is why you are here today. A few months ago, we began this conversation, and this has led to our discussion today. I think it's serious as well as sad. We must encourage and not discourage organizations working throughout the country.

I like the fact that, in your approach, you talk about the situation and propose some solutions too. I think that is important. We mustn't just criticize, we must also seek ways to move forward.

You say that a number of respondents had to use their lines of credit and that the organizations have to absorb the interest charges. Does the government then pay those charges?

[Marie-France Kenny]

Canadian Heritage does not pay the interest charges paid by associations.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

So, it is a net loss.

[Marie-France Kenny]

It is a net loss. I must also say that we can use lines of credit only when we have a letter of confirmation from Canadian Heritage. Otherwise, a bank will not give a not-for-profit organization a line of credit if the funding has not been confirmed by someone.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

I understand that the government is not taking very many risks. In fact, the organizations are the ones assuming all the risks, when they need to hire or retain an employee without any confirmation, and they are then the victims afterwards.

[Marie-France Kenny]

True. I can give you a concrete example. Just before the Acadian World Congress this year, some organizations in Atlantic Canada had not yet received their funding for programming or projects allowing them to take part in that event. They were told that it would happen at their own risk because they had not yet received confirmation. They were still awaiting such confirmation and had not yet received it a few days before the congress.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

When I went to Newfoundland, that was the case with the person who was supposed to represent that province. Did that gentleman receive the money and did he go to the congress?

[Marie-France Kenny]

His funding was confirmed just a few days before the Acadian World Congress.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

Does he still occupy that position? I remember having a talk with him. He told me he had not received a confirmation, he did not have the money and he was going to have to fire himself because he was the only employee and he did not have a cent left.

[Marie-France Kenny]

He still occupies the position and he did receive confirmation. As I said, without a confirmation, you cannot use a line of credit because that makes you incur net losses. Those losses are charged to us, not to Canadian Heritage.

Ironically, if you don't spend all the money given to you, you have to give it back to Canadian Heritage. We have no objection to that. However, if we don't do it within a certain timeframe, we have to pay interest to Canadian Heritage.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

And you must not be late.

[Marie-France Kenny]

I am talking about less than one month's delay. If you do not give the money back within a month, you have to pay interest.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

Send them a cheque by fax.

You stated that there have been more delays this year. Do you know exactly why?

[Marie-France Kenny]

It is a rather special year because official languages programs were renewed in 2008-2009. This was also a year where two-year applications are filed, which meant that all programming also had to be approved. That represents an increase in applications every two years.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

We also got the impression that there are many more files that go all the way up to the minister's office. Is that the case? That means additional delays. Instead of decentralizing decision-making, it is being centralized and that necessarily leads to a bottleneck.

[Marie-France Kenny]

To our knowledge, all contribution agreements have to go through the office of the Minister of Canadian Heritage, whether they are submitted by the OLSPB of that department or by regional offices in the provinces and territories, who go directly to the minister's office without going through the OLSPB.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Mr. Rodriguez. I am sure you will agree that five minutes go by very fast when you are in good company.

We will continue with Mr. Richard Nadeau.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Congratulations, Ms. Kenny. I would not err in saying “long live the Fransaskoisie!”.

Good morning, Ms. Bossé.

Last June, the committee did indeed decide to go ahead with this extremely important study. In my experience, this is a recurring problem. I get the impression that from the day the Official Languages Act was promulgated and organizations were given opportunities to combat the assimilation of francophones in Canada, they have had trouble obtaining the funds within reasonable timeframes for the creation of the programs demanded by the federal government. It was true regardless of whether Liberals or Conservatives were in power. It seems to be the administrative structure that is at fault. I cannot blame any particular government, but this has been going on for far too long. I have met members of the Quebec Community Group Network who are in the same situation. These are Quebec anglophones.

We know what the situation is like. We know how harmful it is. We know our history: you only receive crumbs to fight assimilation put forward by provincial governments for decades under the spiteful auspices of the federal government. Despite that, communities are being asked to take charge of their affairs, to be responsible, to be accountable and to assume all the responsibilities that the government is not taking on in this context. It is not a bad thing for you to be in charge, because you are far more aware of the situation on the ground.

We are looking for solutions. Could you tell us how you would feel if there were no longer a need to go through a minister to get the authorization to issue the cheque? Quite often, it is on somebody's desk and there are many other things to take care of first. The Department of Canadian Heritage is vast, it is very big. There were many, many files at the time. In what way would not having to always go through the minister improve the situation?

[Marie-France Kenny]

First of all, most applications are submitted to the regions, in the case of the provinces and territories. The Department of Canadian Heritage staff who are there are familiar with the organizations in place and work with them.

There are indeed some organizations that present a greater risk. Most of these organizations have a significant history. Some improvements have been made when it comes to multi-year applications. When applications are approved, the funding is assured. This year, these applications became due, and further applications had to be submitted which had to be examined once again, thus leading to delays. We understand that these multi-year applications are only granted to organizations who have a good track record and are stable. We will ask for a streamlined process for those types of organizations.

There is a lot of red tape involved in submitting an application and having it evaluated. In fact, the application is often submitted to the Department of Canadian Heritage which then sends it to a management committee. That committee makes a recommendation to the Department of Canadian Heritage which approves it before sending it to Ottawa, where everything is sent to the minister's office. That kind of operating structure should be reviewed, including all the red tape involved in these binders — we are serious when we say binders for funding applications. The staff in the regions should be allowed to approve everything rather than sending it all here.

When a minister's office has to approve hundreds if not thousands of binders, the whole process becomes unduly lengthy.

[Suzanne Bossé, Director General, Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada]

It is also important to examine the whole issue of governance between regional offices that come under an assistant deputy minister who is different from the assistant deputy minister responsible for national files at the OLSPB, the Official Languages Support Programs Branch.

Moreover, with regard to the fact that everything has to be approved by the minister's office, we know full well that in the past, projects of over one million dollars had to be authorized by the minister, whereas those under one million dollars could be approved by the deputy minister. That is certainly an option that should be considered because it would surely accelerate the process.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you very much.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Thank, Mr. Chairman.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

You're welcome.

I will now give the floor to Mr. Yvon Godin, our second deputy chair.