Evidence of meeting #9 for Official Languages in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was programs.
A recording is available from Parliament.
10:15 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Steven Blaney
Thank you, Mrs. Zarac. I hope your investments don't fluctuate too much.
We're going to continue with Mr. Gaudet, from the Bloc Québécois.
10:15 a.m.
Bloc
Roger Gaudet Bloc Montcalm, QC
I have a brief question. Then Mr. Nadeau will take the rest of the time allotted to me.
My question is for the representatives of the Canadian Association of University Teachers. When you have meetings, are they held in English, or in French?
10:15 a.m.
Past President, Canadian Association of University Teachers
First of all, I must say that we are a national and bilingual organization. Our board of directors, which consists of approximately 150 delegates from across the country, meets twice a year, and we offer simultaneous interpretation. All our communications are done in both languages. We publish a newsletter and news releases in both languages. Everything is done in both languages.
In practice, many of our activities in which mainly anglophones take part are conducted in English. We organize some 10 workshops and conferences a year on collective bargaining, grievance settlement, academic freedom and university funding. Those activities are generally conducted in English. I gave the reason earlier. Historically, at their inception, the major Quebec universities and teachers associations were members of the . When they acquired their own federation, around 1972, CAUT, the forerunner of the FQPPU, they joined that Quebec federation. So we have several thousands of francophone members who work in Ontario's francophone and bilingual universities, as well as individual members who work in anglophone universities.
We are officially a bilingual federation.
10:15 a.m.
Bloc
Roger Gaudet Bloc Montcalm, QC
I know you're a bilingual federation, but you hold your meetings in English. That's what I wanted to know. I'm sure you don't hold any meetings in French. The francophone employees of the public service tell me that, when an anglophone is in the room, they all speak English because the anglophone doesn't speak French. That was my question.
10:15 a.m.
Past President, Canadian Association of University Teachers
There's a committee that—
10:15 a.m.
Bloc
Roger Gaudet Bloc Montcalm, QC
We can ask them; they're right here. I can put my question to all the representatives of associations here in the committee room. When you hold your meetings, do you do so in English or in French?
10:15 a.m.
Director General, Learning Policy and Planning Directorate, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
The office meetings are usually in English.
10:15 a.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Association of Second Language Teachers
It's completely bilingual. We often start in one language
and we finish in the other one.
Our meetings are completely bilingual.
10:15 a.m.
Bloc
Roger Gaudet Bloc Montcalm, QC
Have you ever held a meeting in French only? That's what I want to know.
10:15 a.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Association of Second Language Teachers
Yes, it happens.
10:15 a.m.
Director General, Réseau des cégeps et collèges francophones du Canada
We hold ours in French only, sir. The RCCFC's meetings are held in French only.
10:20 a.m.
Bloc
Roger Gaudet Bloc Montcalm, QC
I have a little question for you; I was keeping it for the end. I received your action plan, and it's in English only.
March 12th, 2009 / 10:20 a.m.
Director General, Réseau des cégeps et collèges francophones du Canada
Pardon me, but we sent both versions.
10:20 a.m.
Bloc
Roger Gaudet Bloc Montcalm, QC
So I got the wrong version.
Thank you very much. I've finished, and I now turn the floor over to my colleague Mr. Nadeau.
10:20 a.m.
Bloc
Richard Nadeau Bloc Gatineau, QC
Mr. Allain, in the case of the University of Ottawa, it's not because the university is bilingual that all the professors are.
10:20 a.m.
Bloc
Richard Nadeau Bloc Gatineau, QC
All right. That answers my question.
Now I'd like to turn to the representatives of the colleges and Cegeps. To conduct a study on access to postsecondary education in French outside Quebec in 1990-1991, I went to the Université Sainte-Anne. I spoke with one of the professors there. He had taught at Université Laval and was now teaching at Université Sainte-Anne in Church Point. This didn't appear in the report, but he told me the situation was ridiculous. As he lived in Church Point during the summer, he had been asked to lend a hand and to mow the lawn to cut maintenance costs. That's not a joke. It's not very glorious when you're at a university. They don't promote that aspect when they want to attract teachers.
Is the situation improving for small universities and colleges or is it increasingly critical?
10:20 a.m.
Administrator, Director General of the Collège communautraire du Nouveau-Brunswick, Réseau des cégeps et collèges francophones du Canada
I can't say whether the situation has improved at the small universities. The only member that offers or rather offered programming is the Université Sainte-Anne, because there's not much college programming left. We mainly represent Canada's francophone colleges and Cegeps. I would say the situation is improving in certain provinces and that it's scarcely improving in others.
10:20 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Steven Blaney
Your time is up. Thank you, Mr. Nadeau.
Ms. Glover, go ahead, please.
10:20 a.m.
Conservative
Shelly Glover Conservative Saint Boniface, MB
Thanks to all the witnesses.
Thank you, Mr. Allain, for drawing attention once again to your government's commitment to official languages. Regardless of what is said on the other side, we are committed. Everyone in the House is committed to bilingualism and wants a country that supports both official languages. I encourage you,
do your meetings in English or French, whatever you want,
you have two official languages. So, bravo!
Ms. Thibault, you said that we should establish proficiency standards. I think that would be a good idea too. How could we establish those proficiency standards that would apply to colleges and universities?
10:20 a.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Association of Second Language Teachers
I'm going to answer in English.
The process has already started. What it takes is the Council of Ministers of Education--it's all the different ministries of education--which meets in Toronto regularly, coming together to discuss joint projects, because many of the decisions are done at a provincial level.
We started working on the dialogue in about 2003, and one of the biggest issues was exactly that: knowing what a French immersion program produces. What's the level of bilingualism in a French immersion program from kindergarten to grade 8 or from kindergarten to grade 12? What is the level of bilingualism, core French, and
English as a second language.
--it's the same idea in different provinces--so that universities can get a sense of exactly what entrance requirement you could ask for?
I think that goes back to the question of why some of those requirements were taken away. It was because if you were coming from different provinces, the expectations were different. If you finished your immersion in this province, you didn't get the entrance requirement for that university.
That's a little bit about why those things were relaxed.
The dialogue has already started. The agreement on what framework to use has already happened. We're now at the stage of having the different provinces look at how they can begin to implement it at the K to 12 levels. We're starting to encourage some piloting of actual testing.
The example John gave was Edmonton Public Schools. They are quite a leader in this area. They've actually tested samples of immersion students, core French students, and so on so that they can get a sense of their level on the grid.
They're also working at the Faculté Saint-Jean at the University Alberta, which is now looking to implement that entrance requirement to say that in certain faculties--not all faculties, but certain faculties--you would have to have a B2 or a C1 or whatever level those are.
I can give background information on what the framework is. It's based on a European model that was developed over 20 years. It's a very good research base. The Department of Canadian Heritage actually did a study on all the frameworks that have been developed, and that's why they've moved forward with this framework. It best fits the autonomy of the provinces in education but also the joint work that can happen at a pan-Canadian level. So it's moving.
The next stage for us is to push that project towards post-secondary. That means meeting with community colleges and meeting with university programs and encouraging them to use a portfolio and a tracking system with their students.
One of the pilot projects we have going on right now is having six different faculties of education developing this. They'll use it in the teacher education programs. We are a little closer to that.
10:25 a.m.
Conservative
Shelly Glover Conservative Saint Boniface, MB
I'm sorry, because I'm going to run out of time, but you brought it back to what my colleague was saying about having reduced the standards to get into university. So I'm glad to hear that it is being addressed.
Do you have an estimated date of completion?
We'll have to invite you back to find out the details.