Evidence of meeting #35 for Official Languages in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was rcmp.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Commissioner Daniel Dubeau  Assistant Commissioner, Director General of Workplace and Programs Services and Co-champion of Official Languages, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Nathalie Ferreira  Director of Official Languages, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Tim Cogan  Acting Director General, National Communication Services, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Marc Richer  Director of RCMP Media Relations and Issues Management, Royal Canadian Mounted Police

8:45 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Steven Blaney

Good morning, and welcome to the 35th meeting of the Standing Committee on Official Languages.

This morning, pursuant to Standing Order 108(3)(f), we are considering the use of Google Translate by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police.

We are pleased to have with us four witnesses who will contribute to our discussion today.

First, we have the Assistant Commissioner, who is also the Director General of Workplace and Programs Services, as well as Co-champion of Official Languages, Daniel Dubeau. Welcome to the committee.

We also have Nathalie Ferreira, Director of Official Languages, Superintendent Tim Cogan, Acting Director General of National Communication Services at the RCMP, and finally, Inspector Marc Richer, Director of RCMP Media Relations and Issues Management.

You were told how the committee works. You will begin with a brief statement, and then the members of the committee will ask you questions. Without further ado, I will ask you to start us off.

Mr. Dubeau, you have the floor.

8:45 a.m.

Assistant Commissioner Daniel Dubeau Assistant Commissioner, Director General of Workplace and Programs Services and Co-champion of Official Languages, Royal Canadian Mounted Police

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First, I would like to thank you for inviting the Royal Canadian Mounted Police to respond to your questions today. I would like to begin by saying that, as a national police force, the RCMP strives to remain a role model in implementing and respecting all laws, including the Official Languages Act, which honours our national heritage and unique linguistic identity.

Whatever challenges we may encounter along the way, the RCMP never ceases to dedicate itself to finding and implementing solutions that will improve the quality of services it provides in the two official languages of our country. It is because of its continuous devotion and commitment that our organization invests great effort in making the necessary adjustments to respect its obligations under the Official Languages Act, just as it would for any other law it is mandated to observe and enforce.

Our cornerstone remains the first-class delivery of police services based on compliance and respect. When our choices, our actions or our decisions are questioned, we try to find a way to rectify the situation as soon as possible and to the best of our ability. We take full responsibility for our choices, even when they contradict our intentions. But more importantly, we remain attentive to the public we serve, and we are ready to readjust the focus because our objective is simple: the well-being of all.

That said, in regard to our official languages obligations, we are fully engaged in doing what is necessary, to the best of our ability and within our scope, to show Canadians that the Royal Canadian Mounted Police is fully committed to promoting and conserving English and French, as well as protecting Canadians' linguistic rights, without prejudice, when it comes to communicating with and obtaining services from our organization in the official language of one's choice. It is precisely because the organization believes in the fair treatment of all citizens that it continues to invest effort in improving the level of bilingualism internally and externally.

We are keeping a strong and continuing commitment to have all of our official administrative and operational documents for our employees, as well as our services and external communications with the public, provided in both English and French, where and when prescribed by the law, whether it be on our Web sites, in person, or through our media relations.

As part of its commitment to respect its obligations, the RCMP has raised the visibility and importance of the Official Languages Act in its programs throughout the organization, by including in its official languages action plan for 2010-2013 different initiatives focused on the implementation and promotion of parts IV, V, VI, and VII of the act. These initiatives are also used to further sensitize RCMP employees with respect to two important points: their official language rights and obligations, and the value added by our Canadian linguistic duality.

As part of its ongoing awareness and education campaign entitled, "Our Heritage, Our Advantage", the RCMP continues to develop and discuss educational and promotional tools force-wide, especially when it pertains to active offer service delivery in the official language of choice of the public.

The RCMP has also increased internal media to this end over the last few years. The purpose is to bring official languages to the forefront. Every opportunity is taken to post and distribute various articles on communications with and services to the public, language of work, equal participation of English-speaking and French-speaking Canadians, linguistic duality, enhancement of official language minority communities, and much more.

Best practices throughout the organization are shared and showcased, special events, internal or external, are announced, and useful tips are given as to the use of English and French in the workplace and beyond.

When it comes to language of work, many measures have been adopted by us throughout the regions to foster and promote a workplace conducive to the use of our two official languages. A prime example that demonstrates our commitment towards increasing the level of bilingualism within our organization is the raising of the linguistic profiles of all of our supervisory positions to a minimum of BBC within New Brunswick to improve the quality of communications with employees.

Another good example that highlights our efforts and our commitment is the creation of a new language training program. In addition to the regular English- and French-language training offered throughout the regions, in December 2008, the RCMP began offering an English-language training program to newly engaged francophone members, following their cadet training program at Depot Division, in Regina.

The purpose of this program, which integrates both language training and field coaching, is to offer francophone members additional support throughout their policing career and equal opportunity for advancement.

Our objective remains ensuring a workplace conducive to the use of both official languages, where services, tools and necessary training are all available in English and in French.

With regard to the implementation of part VII of the Official Languages Act, our directorate of official languages, our regional coordinator network, as well as different stakeholders throughout the RCMP, are very involved with anglophone and francophone minorities and take active part in various interdepartmental committees. These committees aim to support the development of these groups, as well as support the full recognition and use of English and French in Canadian society. Indeed, the RCMP is dedicated to searching for and putting in place positive measures to shoulder the government's commitment to this end. Although the RCMP is not among the designated federal institutions who must submit an official accountability report to Canadian Heritage, it insists on doing so as proof of its commitment towards the implementation of sections 41 and 42 of this legislation.

Last but not least, we continue to recruit from all communities that form our Canadian mosaic, including, of course, our official language minority communities.

In our opinion, it is a winning situation for all involved. Not only does this increase and enrich the force's capacity with a wide array of skills, but it also provides employment opportunities and career development to all Canadian citizens who would like to join Canada's police force and make a difference in communities across the country.

In hundreds of communities that we serve day in and day out, proactive and positive measures are taken that underline the government's requirements and commitment. The RCMP continues to encourage its personnel to go beyond their obligations wherever and whenever possible. We recognize the importance and value of our bilingual identity, and not only continue our efforts to preserve it but also promote it as an operational asset. Languages, which open the door to communication, can be the most effective and valuable tool towards the achievement of the greater good.

This notion, along with the intent to serve members of the public in the official language of their choice and to respect linguistic duality, is one of our goals. It is an integral part of our strategic framework, and it is considered not only in everyday law enforcement functions, but also in the planning and delivery of major events. The Vancouver 2010 Olympic and Paralympic Games are a prime example.

In short, bilingualism is an official priority of the RCMP. This is why we fully support the objectives of the Official Languages Act in our day-to-day operations. When we consider the extent of our responsibilities and focus on the fact that we have over 700 points of service, many operating 24 hours a day, seven days a week, we come to realize just how many challenges can be presented by that. Notwithstanding those, we will pursue our efforts towards the achievement of a balance between operational needs and the ongoing necessity of serving the public in the two official languages of Canada. The RCMP will continue to fulfill all of its obligations under the act across the organization.

Should we slip along the way, as was the case with Google Translate, we will take the necessary steps to get back on the right track. We remain dedicated to providing exemplary policing services to Canadians, as well as promoting a work environment conducive to the use of French and English, in accordance with this act and its regulations.

Finally, I want to assure you that, like any English-speaking and French-speaking Canadian, our national police force respects and shares the same commitment towards our two official languages and our culture.

That is why the RCMP makes it its duty to equally preserve and promote both, not only as a right and an obligation, but rather as a legacy to our advantage, just as presented in its official languages awareness campaign.

On this final note, I thank you for your time and interest.

8:55 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Steven Blaney

Thank you very much, Assistant Commissioner.

We will now begin our first round of questions.

Mr. Murphy, you have the floor.

8:55 a.m.

Liberal

Brian Murphy Liberal Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Many thanks to the witnesses. I have a few general questions.

As far as language of work goes, you said on page 2 of your presentation, that improvements were made in terms of raising the linguistic profiles of all supervisory positions in New Brunswick. I am from Moncton, New Brunswick. The RCMP has been in Moncton since 2000. On Monday night, the city council will decide whether to keep the current services of the RCMP or to opt for something else.

I find it very concerning to read that it is only now, 10 years later—even though the New Brunswick government decided to replace municipal police forces with the RCMP—that you are raising the level of bilingualism within your organization in New Brunswick. I want to know why it took so long, a decade, to do that. That is my first question.

I am aware that today's topic has more to do with the west coast, British Columbia. Only one paragraph at the end of your four-page presentation even mentions Google Translate. The big question here is how much does the RCMP spend annually on translation services in British Columbia. That is the big question, because we all know that using Google for translation may not have been the most well thought-out idea, and I hope the situation will be rectified.

Do the RCMP's practices vary depending on the region? I would assume so. There are issues in New Brunswick, and the situation is even worse in British Columbia. Does the RCMP in British Columbia have an adequate budget for translation? Those are two questions I would like you to answer.

8:55 a.m.

A/Commr Daniel Dubeau

First, as for British Columbia's annual translation budget, I do not have those details with me today. We can check with the British Columbia detachment to see how much it spends on translation, but I do not have those details on hand today.

As for the other question, I will ask Ms. Ferreira to tell us when the levels were raised.

8:55 a.m.

Nathalie Ferreira Director of Official Languages, Royal Canadian Mounted Police

Actually, there have always been bilingualism levels in the detachments in Moncton and the entire Atlantic region. And some profiles are much higher than “BBC”. This is not something that happened only recently; it has been ongoing for a few years now. We made sure that the bare minimum was “BBC”, “C” being the requirement for oral interaction, which is of course the most important means of communication.

So, in order to ensure a higher level of proficiency, we committed to raising all the requirements for bilingual supervisory positions to a minimum of “C”. Positions with bilingualism levels ranging from “BBB” to “CBC” and even the professional rating of “P” exist throughout the Atlantic region, and not just in recent years, but for quite some time now.

9 a.m.

Liberal

Brian Murphy Liberal Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB

I appreciate the improvement, but why did it take 10 years? What was the bilingualism level in terms of language of work in the Moncton detachment originally? Was it adequate?

9 a.m.

Director of Official Languages, Royal Canadian Mounted Police

Nathalie Ferreira

No. I would also like to point out that, beginning in April 2004, the bilingualism level for the entire public service was raised to a minimum profile of “BBB”. So, the RCMP has always met that obligation. We raised our levels to “BBB”. But, I repeat, the bilingualism level and language profiles of supervisory positions and others, for that matter, have always been “BBB” and higher. But, as of 2004, we made certain that everything was in line with the required levels, which were “BBB”. After that, we took steps to exceed the “BBB” requirement and to raise levels to a “C”, especially for oral interaction, the most important form of communication. We did not do that in response to a government requirement or policy, but out of a commitment to respect official languages. We want to strengthen our commitment.

9 a.m.

Liberal

Brian Murphy Liberal Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB

It concerns me that you do not know the translation budget for the RCMP detachment in British Columbia.

Today, we are exploring why the RCMP used “Google Translate”. I would think you anticipated what we would be asking. We want to know about the translation services used by the RCMP detachment in British Columbia. You do not have those figures on hand?

9 a.m.

A/Commr Daniel Dubeau

No, sir, I do not have those figures with me today.

9 a.m.

Liberal

Brian Murphy Liberal Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB

Do you have an idea of the amount?

9 a.m.

A/Commr Daniel Dubeau

I can tell you that the RCMP has in-house translators in British Columbia, and that it has access to translation services here, in the national capital region. It has other options, as well, such as using the services of employees at Public Works. But I do not know how much the translation budget is exactly.

9 a.m.

Liberal

Brian Murphy Liberal Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB

But you know you have translators in-house, in British Columbia. How many people are there?

9 a.m.

A/Commr Daniel Dubeau

I believe there is one.

Ms. Ferreira?

9 a.m.

Director of Official Languages, Royal Canadian Mounted Police

Nathalie Ferreira

Yes, there is currently one in-house translator.

9 a.m.

Liberal

Brian Murphy Liberal Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB

One translator for all of British Columbia.

9 a.m.

Director of Official Languages, Royal Canadian Mounted Police

Nathalie Ferreira

For the time being, yes.

9 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Steven Blaney

Thank you, Mr. Murphy.

We will continue with Mr. Nadeau.

9 a.m.

Bloc

Richard Nadeau Bloc Gatineau, QC

Thank you.

Good morning, everyone.

Are you familiar with what I call the “Justin Bell case”? Does that ring a bell?

I lived in Saskatchewan for seven years and taught there for four. You know Justin Bell. He was one of my students. Justin Bell ended up in handcuffs—I repeat, handcuffs—for asking a member of the RCMP to provide service in French when he was pulled over for speeding in Gravelbourg, an area that is home to more than 5% of Saskatchewan's French-speaking population.

You know the Official Languages Act; I would assume you refer to it on a daily basis, as do we, for that matter. Under the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, services must be provided in areas where the numbers warrant it. That is in Canada's constitution. I am not talking about the AANB that is the Alcoholics Anonymous New Brunswick chapter, but the AANB that is the British North America Act, which was repatriated in 1982 by our friend Mr. Trudeau. You all know that story.

Regardless, the name Justin Bell should mean something to you, because it was the RCMP that handcuffed that teacher. Today, he is a teacher in Gravelbourg. The incident occurred between 2006 and 2008. It is not ancient history. I am not talking about when Louis Riel was hanged; I am talking about Justin Bell.

Mr. Godin, a member of the NDP who is usually at committee meetings, raised the issue of why the RCMP was using Google for translation, when this is a bilingual country. Perhaps the RCMP still did not know. Its motto, however, is Maintiens le droit. It is indeed in French. Mr. Galipeau could tell you all about it because he also has things to say on the matter.

How is it that, in 2009-2010, we saw the RCMP violate the Official Languages Act yet again, essentially slapping all francophones in the face? I see that there are francophone members of the RCMP here today. There are bilingual members, as well. Basically, the RCMP has proudly proclaimed that now, in British Columbia—which, to my mind, is still part of Canada, since I do not think it has been annexed to the state of Washington or Alaska—it is going to use Google's services for its translation needs.

Whose idea was that, and how did it manage to gain ground? Can you please explain that? During a later round of questions, I want you to tell me how you plan to fix it.

9:05 a.m.

A/Commr Daniel Dubeau

The decision to use Google Translate was made in the Pacific region, in British Columbia, by the communications team. It was an isolated decision, as the policy centre wasn't consulted at all.

As soon as we heard about this decision, we got involved and set things right. We explained very clearly that we needed to comply with the Official Languages Act and that the decision to use a translation engine was inappropriate. That much was made very clear.

9:05 a.m.

Bloc

Richard Nadeau Bloc Gatineau, QC

Was the gentleman who made the decision an RCMP employee or a third party?

9:05 a.m.

A/Commr Daniel Dubeau

He's an RCMP employee, sir.

9:05 a.m.

Bloc

Richard Nadeau Bloc Gatineau, QC

Is he in charge of communications?

9:05 a.m.

A/Commr Daniel Dubeau

Yes, he's in charge of communications for British Columbia.

9:05 a.m.

Bloc

Richard Nadeau Bloc Gatineau, QC

We're talking about British Columbia, as part of Canada, and not about British Columbia, as part of Alaska, of the State of Washington, of Oregon, and so on. Just so we understand each other.

He did not get the training that would make him understand that he had to provide services in French that were of equal quality to services provided in English. And this man is in charge of communications.