Official Languages Committee on Dec. 8th, 2011

[Aline Bouffard-Cohen, Director General, Société Saint-Thomas-d'Aquin (Société acadienne de l'Île-du-Prince-Édouard)]

Yes, I do.

In terms of the economy on the island, I think that people are increasingly aware that, although the island is predominantly English-speaking, francophones are also consumers and that it is possible to consume and be served in French. Entrepreneurs have become aware that francophones are a clientele that can be served, and that serving them in French encourages consumers to come back. The RDEE made it possible to develop a francophone chamber of commerce, which, in turn, makes it possible to have more French-language services in the private sector.

Let me give you a very concrete example. You go to a restaurant, you get service in French and you decide to go back to that restaurant. Restaurant owners start realizing how important it is to serve the francophone clientele in French, especially in the summer. There are lots and lots of tourists especially from the Atlantic provinces. So, if they receive service in French, they will be sure to come back to the island. The economic sector and the RDEE are working on this issue and their representatives are aware of it. This partnership is new and important to us. The island has an economic development plan.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

The roadmap allocated $16.2 million to ACOA especially for minority communities. Of that amount, $10 million were allocated to immigration in New Brunswick and $6.2 million to economic development for the francophone segment of the Atlantic.

Do you think that Prince Edward Island received its share?

[Aline Bouffard-Cohen]

There are two things. First, we have not established where the funding went. So it is very hard for me to give you an answer.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

That's the problem. I have heard all the witnesses point out how important the roadmap is, but no one seemed to be able to say whether the funding came from the roadmap or elsewhere.

[Aline Bouffard-Cohen]

We don't know.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

I would like to ask everyone this question because everyone says that the roadmap is good. How can you say that the roadmap is good if you don't even know whether the money comes from it? You cannot determine which projects come from the roadmap. Does the roadmap do anything or not?

As I recall, the government used to give money for arts and culture. But, if I am not mistaken, it slashed $45 million from arts and culture in 2006. Do you remember that? You now say that you received a lot because you got $25.3 million. But if we subtract $45 million from $25.3 million, you are not left with a whole lot. So you suffered a loss.

Does the roadmap take you anywhere or is it just smoke in the air? We know what it is. When we sit in our backyard in the evening and we want to chase mosquitoes away, we light a little fire. Is that what the roadmap is? The government boasts that the roadmap works well, but every time we meet with organizations, it is always the same thing. And it is true, might I add, but I would like to hear what you have to say. I am going to give you time to do so. Could you tell me whether the roadmap is good and, if so, what are you basing that statement on?

The same thing goes for Manitoba. The government has given some $300,000 in the past. Does that money come from other programs? Does it really come from the roadmap? How can you say that the roadmap is good? How can you justify it, when you are telling us that you are not even involved in the process and that you don't know where you got the money from? And you are not alone in saying that, since almost everyone who appeared before us did the same thing. You praise the roadmap and say you want it to be renewed, but you don't actually know if it did anything for you.

You can dive right in.

[Ibrahima Diallo, Past-President, Société franco-manitobaine]

Okay then, as long as you let me dive right in. Thank you very much for your question.

We pointed this out in our presentation. The roadmap is a broad concept, and I also think that it is not very well known on the ground. It is usually done at the national level and it goes directly to the interested organizations, to provincial organizations. It is like there was a national organization with subsidiaries—and that often takes place outside pre-established processes—such as advocacy organizations. We have to ask people what they got. Those organizations often don't even know whether the money came from the roadmap.

Perhaps the roadmap doesn't sell itself very well, though it may do things that take place on the ground. For example, we have talked about translation scholarships in our report. I am very familiar with that because I was the dean of a faculty. So I knew that the funding came from the roadmap, just like the $1 million for the digitization of translation programs at the University of Saint-Boniface, but it was sort of a piecemeal approach.

That is why we are saying that, in the next roadmap, it is important to find a way to circulate information and make it as clear as possible for both advocacy organizations and the groups that benefit from it.

We have a problem when a group receives money and they don't know if it comes from the roadmap, as you said. For example, we can see that infrastructure programs were happening everywhere . But we see nothing that says that it comes from the roadmap. So there is certainly work to do to make the roadmap better known as something that makes things happen, that brings about change, we must admit, but that essentially is not very well known.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you, Mr. Diallo.

Mr. Gourde, you have the floor.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank the witnesses for being here this morning. It really is very interesting.

I have a question for the three organizations, the two sociétés and the fédération. You are facing challenges and I think you have mentioned them. Could you give us an example of the challenges you face and tell us what you have done to improve the situation? Could you also tell me how the roadmap has helped you?

Perhaps we could start with the representative from the Société Saint-Thomas-d'Aquin.

[Gabriel Arsenault]

Thank you for your question, Mr. Gourde.

As I mentioned in the presentation, one of the projects with considerable spinoffs is the school-community centres that were built in Prince Edward Island. It started with setting up the French-language education system in Prince Edward Island. As you know, Prince Edward Island is a small area, but there are still about 30,000 people of Acadian and francophone origin.Today, there are only about 5,600 who still speak French.

These school-community centres are new. Four centres have been built since 2000. Momentum was created, and promotion and awareness have increased in all the regions in Prince Edward Island. We are once again introducing French to the Acadians who had been assimilated. The situation is still delicate because we are in a sea of anglophones in Prince Edward Island. Acadians and francophones represent about 4% of the island's population.

It is important to continue. We still need support and assistance to continue our efforts in reversing assimilation and introducing French to our people who have lost their mother tongue, unfortunately.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

Thank you.

What does Mr. Dubeau think, from the Fédération culturelle canadienne-française?

[Éric Dubeau, Director General, Fédération culturelle canadienne-française]

It is a very interesting question. We mentioned a number of examples in our presentation, including increased collaboration with the education sector, to follow on what you were saying. I think the challenge on the ground has to do with the stakeholders' desire for closer ties and a desire for active complicity and collaboration.

In our case, we have developed a tool box, the Trousse du passeur culturel, which is used as a reference and guide for school teachers and principals who want to incorporate arts and culture in education more effectively. We know that, in our communities, schools have a dual mandate: education and training, as well as building identities. Over the past few years, we have been working closely with educators to try and support them, to help them with integrating arts and culture in order to build identities as part of their mandate.

Let me also go back to some concrete examples of our work on the ground. One example is the music showcase program that made it possible to broaden the exposure of singers and musicians everywhere in Canada, including Quebec, which still remains a critical priority market for our artists and artistic organizations.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

What about the Société franco-manitobaine?

[Ibrahima Diallo]

One of the challenges our organizations are faced with is health services in French. The roadmap has helped us set up programs, especially since we have an aging population.

There is also another aspect. We are receiving more and more unilingual francophone immigrants, including a very large proportion of refugees. In 2007, almost 60% of francophone immigrants were refugees. So it is crucial for health care because these people often need mental health counselling, and so on. I think efforts have been made to address this.

The challenge with health services is being reviewed and corrected to address this new aspect caused by the two factors I just mentioned, aging and the diversification of the clientele.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

I think you have all talked about education. It is really important to have good services in education in order to be able to enhance our communities and make language learning possible. I am thinking about Prince Edward Island where you were confronted with an assimilation problem. Could you describe the situation to me? How critical has it been? How much improvement is there right now?

[Gabriel Arsenault]

In the late 1960s or the 1970s, there was only one French school in the Évangeline region, which is a homogenous region of Acadians and francophones.

During the 1930s, 1940s and 1950s, schools were merged. Several Acadian schools were assimilated into anglophone schools. But we started the French immersion program, which is still a very good program. Actually, in addition to the 5,000 to 5,500 Acadians and francophones, there are also 10,000 to 12,000 francophiles, who graduated from immersion schools. We also want to integrate the francophiles in our communities to help us further develop and promote French language and culture.

As I said earlier, we have only been able to reverse the assimilation trend since the French-language education system was set up. We will keep going, but we still need the support of the federal government through the roadmap.

As Mr. Godin was saying, sometimes we are not sure if the funding comes from the roadmap or from another program. There is always the danger of deciding to reduce funding and not knowing whether it will be funding from the roadmap or funding from an existing program.

All of this is to say that Prince Edward Island is now on the right track, especially in terms of reintroducing French to people who no longer use the language. But we need support to keep the momentum going.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you.

Your turn, Mr. Bélanger.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. I will get right to the point.

Mr. Arsenault, after what you have just said, I am tempted to suggest to the committee that we ask the Auditor General to keep the money from the roadmap and the money from departments separate. But I don't know if we could ask the current Auditor General because he might have trouble communicating with you. So I will restrain myself.

However, I am still going to take advantage of this opportunity to tell you what will happen at the end of the meeting, since we are likely to go in camera. This has been the new way of doing things since the fall. I think it is very unpleasant and undemocratic, but what can I say? That's the way things are. I intended to move a motion asking that the committee invite the headhunter who recommended the appointment of the unilingual anglophone Auditor General. But I wanted to do so when one of our colleagues was here because he made it clear in his comments that he was offended by this appointment. Since he is not here, I will refrain from doing it. I know that it is starting to bother my colleagues opposite that I do this at every meeting. Perhaps they have found a way to stop me, but we will never know because it will take place in camera. We shall find out. Mr. Chair, it was not my intent to introduce my motions this morning.

I would like to raise another point that gets on their nerves, but that greatly concerns me. Some Conservative members have been submitting petitions to the House, asking to eliminate funding for the Société Radio-Canada entirely. Do you have anything to say about that?

[Éric Dubeau]

I will be brave this time. From the FCCF's point of view, Radio-Canada is a critical player that is important not only so that our communities can develop but also so that Canadian arts and culture can flourish in French.

Let me quickly outline two factors that demonstrate that importance. First, access to French-language cultural products, whether in Calgary, Vancouver, Winnipeg or anywhere else. It is not common and it is not easy. I think everyone recognizes and is aware of this. Development aside, there is also Radio-Canada's role as an employer. It is an economic engine in our communities where economic support is sorely needed. There aren't a whole lot of jobs in French in Calgary. Nor in Moncton or Sudbury. It makes sense to keep it for that reason alone.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Thank you.

[Ibrahima Diallo]

I feel that Radio-Canada is still vital for our communities. It has just celebrated its 75 ^th anniversary. In a way, it is an information tool that gives communities a voice.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

I have to move quickly, because I get only one chance to speak this morning.

[Gabriel Arsenault]

If you take Radio-Canada out of Prince Edward Island…

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

The island goes with it!