Official Languages Committee on May 23rd, 2013

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Welcome to the 82^nd meeting of the Standing Committee on Official Language on this Thursday, May 23, 2013.

We are here pursuant to Standing Order 108 for a study on second official language immersion programs in Canada.

Today we have with us Mr. Corbeil and Mr. Nault, from Statistics Canada, and Mr. Maddix and Mr. Paul, from the Fédération nationale des conseils scolaires francophones.

Welcome.

[Pierre Dionne Labelle, NDP, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Mr. Chair, before we start, I have a question for you concerning Minister Kenney's appearance.

We introduced a motion on February 7. Have we received any news on this matter? We have been waiting for three months for confirmation of a meeting with the minister.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

No date has yet been set for the minister's appearance.

[Pierre Dionne Labelle, NDP, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Will we be able to meet with him before the end of the session?

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

I believe so.

[Pierre Dionne Labelle, NDP, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

This is taking a long time.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

The clerk reached Mr. Kenney's office yesterday, and they discussed a possible date for his appearance, June 4, 6 or 13.

[Pierre Dionne Labelle, NDP, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Bravo for your efforts.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Then we will begin with the Statistics Canada representatives.

[François Nault, Director, Social and Aboriginal Statistics Division, Statistics Canada]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank the members of the committee for inviting Statistics Canada to appear and offer input to their discussion on the state of affairs and historical evolution of enrolment in language immersion programs in Canada and the related issues.

Before I begin, I would like to point out that, since Statistics Canada does not have information to measure access to those programs, their capacity, waiting lists or best practices, the presentation by my colleague Jean-Pierre Corbeil will focus mainly on data that Statistics Canada collects on changes in student enrolments and the portion of students enrolled in immersion programs in Canada compared with enrolment in other French as a second language programs.

Mr. Corbeil will also provide information on the second language retention level of students who attended these programs compared with that of other students.

Now I will hand the floor over to him.

[Jean-Pierre Corbeil, Assistant Director , Chief Specialist, Language Statistics Section, Statistics Canada]

Thank you, François.

First, we must remember that barely 10 years after the start of a 1965 experimental project led by two McGill University researchers at an elementary school in Saint-Lambert on the South Shore of Montreal—a project that gave rise to immersion programs across Canada and around the world—there were roughly 250 schools outside Quebec offering a French immersion program.

Immersion programs were so popular that, in just three years, between the 1981-1982 and 1984-1985 school years, the number of schools offering immersion programs went from 570 to 1,140. In the 2001-2002 school year, the last year for which this information is available, nearly 2,000 public schools outside Quebec offered a French immersion program.

Of course, growth in the number of schools outside Quebec offering French immersion programs is reflected in enrolment growth. Over the last 30 years, the number of public school students enrolled in a French immersion program has gone from 39,000 to 341,705.

However, this growth has not been constant: steady enrolment growth between 1981 and 1992 was followed by a period of relative stagnation, if not decline, between 1992 and 2003, and then another period of enrolment growth between the 2004-2005 and 2010-2011 school years. Note that the number of students in immersion programs increased by 52,735, or 18%, between the 2004-2005 and 2010-2011 school years, compared with an increase of barely 6% in the preceding decade.

The resurgence in enrolment in immersion programs since 2004 varies widely from one province or territory to another. For example, in Ontario, where close to 190,000 students are enrolled in an immersion program, 54.4% of all enrolments outside Quebec, the number of students increased 24%. ln comparison, British Columbia and Alberta saw increases of 26% and 16%, respectively, in the number of immersion students.

Despite its small population, the province of Newfoundland and Labrador has the highest growth in immersion program enrolment since 2004, at more than 34%, for a total of 8,700 students in 2010-2011.

Now let me put immersion program enrollment increases into context. I would like to point out to members of the committee that over the last 20 years, growth in the number and proportion of students enrolled in French immersion programs in provinces and territories outside Quebec has taken place as the number of youth enrolled in a regular French as a second language program has significantly decreased.

Since the 1991-92 school year, the number of youth enrolled in an immersion program has gone from more than 267,000 to nearly 342,000, a 27.7% increase. In contrast, the number of youth enrolled in a regular French as a second language program fell from 1.8 million to 1.36 million, a 24% decrease. In short, despite the rise in immersion program enrolment, the proportion of youth outside Quebec who have received French as a second language instruction in the last 20 years has fallen from 53.3% to 43.9%.

This reality, as shown by the statistics for programs and school enrolment collected from the education ministries and departments of each province and territory, is reflected in the census data on knowledge of official languages, in particular since the 1996 census.

Since non-francophones in a number of regions outside Quebec normally learn French in school, the rate of English-French bilingualism peaks between the ages of 15 and 19, when youth are finishing high school. Many teenagers in this age group were in fact enrolled in a French as a second language or immersion program. However, since the 1996 census, bilingualism has declined among youth in this age group whose first official language spoken is English. The proportion of these young people who could conduct a conversation in both official languages was 15.2% in 1996. It decreased steadily to 11.2% in 2011, down four percentage points.

The different ways in which non-francophones outside Quebec learn French at school have very diverse effects on one of the key issues in the evolution of English-French bilingualism in Canada, namely second-language retention over time.

Census data clearly show that the rate of bilingualism in 15 to 19-year-old non-francophones outside Quebec declines as they leave school and grow older. For example, the cohort of 15 to 19-year-old anglophones outside Quebec in 1996 had a bilingualism rate of 15.2%. Fifteen years later, in 2011, when they were 25 to 34, their rate had decreased by nearly half.

Seen from a different angle, by tracking various cohorts of youth aged 5 to 9 years old across censuses, we note the same sequence of events, no matter the cohort. For example, youth aged 5 to 9 years old in 1981 had a bilingualism rate of 3.4%. Ten years later, at the age of 15 to 19, that rate reached nearly 14%. At the age of 25 to 29, that rate had declined to less than 10% to finally stand at 7% 10 years later in 2011.

Note that the level of bilingualism and the retention of French as a second language over time vary considerably depending on whether one was enrolled in an immersion or intensive program or in a regular French as a second language program.

A study conducted by Statistics Canada using data from the “Youth in Transition Survey” revealed a considerable gap between the bilingualism rate of 21-year-olds who were enrolled in a French immersion program and the rate of those who had not been enrolled in an immersion program. The 2006 “Youth in Transition Survey” collected information on the cohort of youth who had participated in the 2000 program for international student assessment when they were 15. The 2006 data therefore helped us to link the youth's self-assessment of their ability to converse in English and French at age 21 with past enrolment in some form of French or English second-language immersion, extended or intensive French.

This study shows that more than 80% of non-francophone youth outside Quebec have never been enrolled in a French immersion or extended program. Only 6% of them have reported being able to conduct a conversation in French at age 21. In contrast, those who had been enrolled in a French immersion or extended program had a rate of English-French bilingualism of 57%.

However, the much higher rate of bilingualism—and therefore the much higher retention rate—of youth who had been enrolled in an immersion program varies depending on the number of years spent in the program and when the youth were first enrolled in the program. Youth who had been enrolled in an immersion program for at least six school years had a bilingualism rate of 75% at age 21. As well, youth who had been enrolled in an immersion program before grade 4 had a rate of bilingualism of 64% at age 21, compared with a rate of 45% for youth who had been first enrolled in grade 4 or later.

Lastly, note that, for youth who were enrolled in immersion at the elementary level only, the rate of bilingualism at age 21 was approximately 40%, compared with 66% for those who continued in the program to the secondary level. The statistics presented here lead to the following findings.

First, the bilingualism rate in 15- to 19-year-old non-francophones outside Quebec has been dropping for the last 15 years. This situation is the result of a number of factors, including a significant decrease in the number and proportion of youth exposed to the instruction of French. In addition, second language skills are gradually lost, primarily because few opportunities exist to use the second language once high school is finished.

Second, there seems to be clear interest in enrolling in French immersion programs, as shown by the 28% increase in French immersion enrolment over the last 20 years. As well, given the high bilingualism and second-language retention rates in young adults who have been enrolled in immersion programs in elementary and high school, it seems obvious that the rate of bilingualism in non-francophones outside Quebec would be even lower, were it not for the success of immersion programs across the country.

In closing, I would like to say that the information we received from our provincial and territorial partners has been critical in helping us to monitor changes in enrolment in French as a second language programs in Canada. Combining the various sources of statistical data has been most useful to inform the public debate on issues surrounding official language learning in Canada.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you.

Now I will hand the floor over to the Fédération nationale des conseils scolaires francophones.

[Robert Maddix, President, Fédération nationale des conseils scolaires francophones]

Thank you, Mr. Chair and members of the committee.

I am representing the Fédération nationale des conseils scolaires francophones today as its President. I am also President of Prince Edward Island's Commission scolaire de langue française. I am here with our federation's Executive Director, Mr. Roger Paul.

We want to thank you for your invitation to appear before the Standing Committee on Official Languages as part of your study on second official language immersion programs in Canada.

Who are we? Our presentation this afternoon will allow us to tell you more about the federation, while sharing the organization's point of view on national education, specifically immersion programs.

The federation is responsible for representing the interests of the 29 francophone and Acadian school boards in every Canadian province and territory, except Quebec. It is active on a political level with the various bodies involved, and on the pedagogical and administrative level through the Regroupement national des directions générales de l'éducation, within which the country's 29 directors of education operate.

With regard to our link with immersion, allow me to tell you from the start that immersion programs are not part of the federation's scope of activity. However, we take great interest in the deployment of these programs since they help develop and promote linguistic duality in Canada, as does the French-language education system.

Now I will hand the floor over to our Executive Director, Mr. Paul.

[Roger Paul, Executive Director, Fédération nationale des conseils scolaires francophones]

Thank you, Mr. Maddix.

Good afternoon, everyone.

To begin with, I would like to set the record straight on language learning. First of all, allow me to quote Pierre Calvé, a former linguistics and education professor at the University of Ottawa, to explain our point of view on immersion programs. He said the following:

A language basically serves four purposes: a) to communicate; b) to think, reflect and develop ideas; c) to obtain and store information; d) to forge an identity as a member of a specific human community.

In our view, learning the language both in immersion programs and in French-language schools achieves these four functions of a language, be it a person's first or second.

I want to draw a distinction between immersion and French-language school. In addition to making it possible to communicate, think and obtain information, learning a second language in an immersion program helps build a Canadian identity characterized by linguistic and cultural duality. In French-language schools, language learning occurs in a linguistic, cultural and civic context. In other words, all activities related to teaching the curriculum contribute to the learning of French as a first language, whether it be shows, the arts, celebrations, mathematics or science. We learn and we build our cultural identity as much during mathematics and science classes as in French classes. This characterizes our French-language schools.

As a result, the cultural approach of teaching in a French-language civic community school contributes to and influences the construction of an individual and collective cultural identity. When students enter the school, they therefore construct an individual and collective cultural identity characteristic of the francophone and Acadian communities that created Canada.

You asked us to offer some recommendations. The Fédération nationale des conseils scolaires francophones has three recommendations to submit to you. Immersion programs and French-language schools respond to specific and complementary needs from a national unity perspective. We therefore think it is essential to ensure they are developed and promoted in an enlightened and fair way for all Canadians.

Our first recommendation concerns information and promotion. Therefore, we hope your committee will recommend in its report that the Canadian government support the steps taken to inform the Canadian population, including immigrants, that we have a French-language education system and immersion programs in English-language schools, and to explain the distinction between the particular scope and mandate of both systems. We believe that if all Canadians had a better understanding of this distinction, there might be a decrease in the high percentage of students from eligible families who do not attend French-language schools.

According to Rodrigue Landry's studies, barely one in two rights holders attends French-language schools. Where are these rights holders?

This approach, which is based on information and promotion, might help resolve the problem of the capacity of immersion schools to respond to the ever-growing demand and enable French-language schools to fulfill their mission.

Our second recommendation concerns funding. The basic distinction between immersion schools and French-language schools also involves separate funding. In that respect, we hope your committee will recommend better accountability with respect to education transfer payments from the federal government to the provinces and territories. Currently, it is almost impossible to know exactly how these amounts are used. However, it seems that considerable amounts intended for education in French as a first language were used to develop immersion programs, and perhaps vice versa as well; we do not know. There is a significant need when it comes to French-language education, and federal contributions set aside for it are essential to deploying a French-language education system.

Our third and final recommendation concerns the continuum.

When the time comes to make the important choice of education language, Canadians consider a combination of factors related to accessibility and quality of instruction, among other things. One factor influencing this decision is the possibility of doing postsecondary studies in the language of choice.

To that end, we hope your committee will recommend to the Canadian government that it look into postsecondary teaching in French so that Canadians can choose a school that offers French-as-a-second-language immersion or French-as-a-first-language education, with the assurance that they can continue their studies in French at the postsecondary level. That goes directly back to what our colleague Mr. Corbeil just mentioned. Students do not have the opportunity to speak the language. There is therefore no follow-up and perhaps no opportunities. Consequently, they become discouraged.

By doing so, we are guaranteeing our country a generation of bilingual young professionals who are able to take on our society's political, economic and cultural levers.

[Robert Maddix]

As a national organization with a major interest in the vitality of the francophone and Acadian communities, the federation recognizes the importance of bilingualism for all Canadians. The additive bilingualism we are recommending ensures harmony between the two founding peoples of this country. We believe that immersion schools are a vital tool that our society has to enable Canada's anglophone population to become bilingual. It is with that in mind that we made these recommendations.

Thank you again for your invitation. We would be pleased to answer any questions you may have.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you, Mr. Maddix.

Mr. Maddix and Mr. Paul must leave at 5:00 p.m. Consequently, if you have any questions for them, you must ask them before they do so.

Mr. Dionne Labelle, you have the floor.

[Pierre Dionne Labelle, NDP, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon and welcome, everyone.

It is always interesting to meet with the people from Statistics Canada. The last time we met, the demolinguistic figures had just been published. I believe that was in October 2012. You reported that bilingualism had levelled off in Canada and declined in the young group of 15- to 19-year-olds. I find it interesting that we have data on that age group because these people will have children in 10 years. At the same time, we know that the use of French in the home is declining in Canada. Currently, 1,380,000 students have access to second-language courses. How many students in Canada never have any contact with French?

[Jean-Pierre Corbeil]

First of all, the number you mentioned is higher. Indeed, 1.4 million students outside Quebec are enrolled in regular French as a second language instruction programs. As I mentioned earlier, approximately 57% of young people today have no contact with French-language instruction, either in immersion or core French programs. That is 57%.

[Pierre Dionne Labelle, NDP, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

So that means that 57% of young Canadian students never have any contact with the French language.

[Jean-Pierre Corbeil]

I do not know whether they never have any contact with French, but—

[Pierre Dionne Labelle, NDP, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

No, but that is the case at school.

[Jean-Pierre Corbeil]

That is true at school.

[Pierre Dionne Labelle, NDP, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Consequently, they have no concept of linguistic duality, or very little. How do you explain that?

[Jean-Pierre Corbeil]

I will not offer an opinion on that.

[Pierre Dionne Labelle, NDP, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

However, that is my conclusion. If you never have any contact with the French language at school and if no one is teaching it, linguistic duality does not mean much.

How do you explain the decline from 1.8 million to 1.4 million? How can that be explained?