Official Languages Committee on April 1st, 2014

[Lise St-Denis, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Yes.

[Ethel Côté]

I mentioned the entrepreneurial features. That doesn't mean that it's easy; it takes hard work to get there.

What happened in Sault Ste. Marie left scars, but a lot of wounds have healed since then. When these events happened, I was personally involved in the francophone community, especially in the community component. I went to Sault Ste. Marie to do planning, but also to Dubreuilville for people who wanted to start collective enterprises, co-operatives, among others, with young people. There was also the community centre that wanted to launch a partnership enterprise and become financially independent. It was clear that we were going to have to wait for the dust to settle.

These people who set up entrepreneurial projects in the francophone community had to establish partnerships and develop ties with anglophones and francophones. They had to rebuild their network of contacts. What I was able to see during follow-up on those projects was that francophones didn't create networks of contacts only with francophones, but also with mostly anglophone businesses, including the CFDA for that region, which relied on a bilingual team member. So there was a support link. Moreover, the person from the RDEE, a francophone economic organization, worked with the anglophone partners.

So spaces were created to develop various ties. I can tell you that more and more francophone businesses are being set up now, compared to 15 years ago. They were always there, but we are now starting to see them in the community. It seems that people are encouraging these businesses if they find that the product is good.

[Lise St-Denis, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

When you say that there are bilingual businesses, does that mean that interactions between francophones and anglophones are still done in English, in the end, or is it that communication may take place in French in cases where some anglophones speak French?

[Ethel Côté]

There are a lot of anglophones who have become francophiles because they love the language. They will find opportunities to shop in French, speak in French and relax in French. In any event, we are part of a reality. It's a fight every day in minority situations.

I always told my children that they had to ask people for things in French, that they had to shop in French. I always told them as well that they should not be rude if the person responded in English, because that was how we were going to work together. We still tell our children that they must speak to people in French first, be it in a boutique, a shop, a major chain store or a supermarket because you never know if the person in front of you is a francophone or a francophile. It is also an opportunity to speak French, regardless of the context. It's not easy.

[Lise St-Denis, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Do schools and universities help develop economic development networks?

[Ethel Côté]

Partnerships are being established. For example, there are universities that helped us do applied research. If we are doing a project in one region, they will get their students to contribute. For example, the universities can apply for research funding that we do not have access to. The professor will supervise his students and work with the community. The universities can then do neutral analyses independent from ours that will give us a clear picture of where we stand. The universities are giving us access to research that we would not be able to afford otherwise, not even with the small CDI grant or other funds. It's complementary.

What is interesting about community colleges is that they can make a more technical contribution, often closer to a trade and often also closer to the type of business someone wants to start.

I've seen young people who have started a business in Internet programming. It was interesting to see the college, which teaches that subject, help these young people who wanted to start a business.

So there are indeed matches being made. We used to work much more separately, but now we are adopting a rather horizontal approach, which helps build as many ties as possible. This is especially the case in minority linguistic communities, but it goes beyond simply language. It is a way of reinvesting in our projects and making them successful.

[Lise St-Denis, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

My next question is for Mr. Griffith or Ms. Rivard.

You said that there are a lot of interactions with respect to trade exchanges. The people of Quebec go to New Liskeard a lot. I know this because I used to live there. I don't know whether the opposite is true, but I know that a lot of people in Abitibi and Timiskaming in Quebec shop in New Liskeard.

Does your organization have special business relationships with Quebec?

[Darcy Griffith]

We don't have a special relationship. We do work cooperatively on tourism initiatives. We just finished a Temiskaming lake tour that incorporated the communities surrounding Lake Temiskaming, including those from both the Quebec and the Ontario sides of the border. So we do have a history of involvement, including Quebec businesses when we're looking at Ontario growth plans, and of course Quebec businesses seeking out information from Ontario as they choose to grow.

Our chamber of commerce does include members from Quebec, so there are businesses in Quebec that find value in being a member of our chamber of commerce. Likewise, we have businesses here that advertise on radio stations and in print media on the Quebec side of the provincial border to try to share what they offer to the Québécois community.

[Lise St-Denis, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Are you able to estimate how many francophone businesses there are in your community?

[Joline Rivard]

To estimate how many...?

[Darcy Griffith]

I wouldn't think there would be any businesses located in Ontario that spoke only French. I think there would be many businesses whose owners spoke French as their first language and who had learned English as their second language and would be more comfortable communicating in French, but will also make attempts to speak English to those who come to their business.

Given the reality that almost every schoolchild in Ontario has taken some French, almost every Ontarian knows a small amount of French. The challenge seems to be this concern that they're going to try to use it and look foolish or embarrass themselves. They just don't have the confidence to try to speak French. One of the things that we think might be beneficial would be an awareness campaign, a try-your-best campaign. If you speak any degree of the other official language just try your best, and likewise an acceptance of the respect of the attempt, that if someone is trying to speak French and—

[Lise St-Denis, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

I would like to ask you another question.

Do the municipalities and the province provide funding to francophone organizations? In other words, what kind of support do provincial and municipal organizations provide to business people in the francophone community?

[Joline Rivard]

I don't know what's out there and when I start looking and start asking, I find the bigger businesses know what's available. They won't share it with me, because they want to keep that to themselves.

A francophone in a downtown that's mainly English—it's a misconception there are francophone businesses, it's known as an anglophone downtown—would rather shop and deal with businesses on the outskirts. Our Quebec highway leads to a set of lights and if you turn right, you're going to go to the big Walmarts, the Canadian Tires, the mall, where the chances of bumping into someone who is bilingual and who can help you are greater than if you come to our downtown, where one person in each store might or might not speak English.

I'm part of that group, the BIA, and I find that the efforts that these business owners do to be able to help their francophone.... I've offered to be a call-a-friend. If you have someone who speaks French, who can't communicate, call me, I'll help you. They've even found some apps so that the person coming to their business can speak to the app and it translates it for them. Our community is trying really hard.

Our new generation is going to French immersion, and I hear it from these kids as a coach. I've coached a team that was 75% anglophone kids and I was able to speak to them in French all summer long while coaching them, because they're in French immersion. I told their parents I was amazed at how well these kids, who are eight and 10 years old, are picking up French, because they have the occasion to play and live in French.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you very much.

We'll now go to Madam Bateman.

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank the witnesses for the ideas they are sharing with us and the work they do.

I would like to divide my questions between you, but to start, I would like to clarify something Ms. Côté said.

In my notes, I see that you work as a business development practitioner for the Canadian Centre for Community Renewal, an organization that works with francophone communities, but with anglophone communities, as well. However, you have spoken only about the communities you serve, in other words, francophone communities.

Could you take a moment to talk about other communities?

[Ethel Côté]

Thank you very much for your question.

It is true that I am an associate of the Canadian Centre for Community Renewal, which is a partnership enterprise. We do not seek funding.

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

I would like to know what percentage of your work is spent on anglophone businesses.

[Ethel Côté]

I would say that most of my time is spent on francophone businesses. I also work on projects where the individuals, francophones or anglophones, want to create a bilingual business in a bilingual community.

At the Canadian Centre for Community Renewal, which is a collective enterprise, we have five practitioners, three of whom work full time. There is me, a francophone, and two anglophones who work a great deal on files involving Canada's north and west. However, we sometimes work together on certain projects.

For example, we worked together on a project to develop the development wheel, a common tool to support entrepreneurial development. We wanted to offer it in English and French at the same time. So we worked together on developing it and provided the community with training. We are really working to break the isolation that separates francophones and anglophones in the communities they share.

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Yes, and both are very important.

Darcy and Joline, what's the percentage split? Obviously you're open for business in both languages, but where does the community split? Is it like your numbers, about one-third francophone and two-thirds anglophone? Is that a reasonable split in terms of the service you provide?

[Darcy Griffith]

Yes. I would think that a limited number of people would speak French only. Most would have a degree of ability to communicate in English. I would think that there would be more people who speak English who are challenged to speak in French.

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

I'm one of those; I'm definitely one of those.

[Darcy Griffith]

So I would think that we do have those people who are anglophone only, but a fewer number would be francophone only.

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Yes.

Ms. Rivard, I am very impressed with the work you do with young people. Congratulations. It's good work.

My next question is for both organizations.

Since you have some experience in this area, I would like to ask you what conditions you think should be established to encourage economic development and growth in Canada. I am thinking specifically of the tax burden and the regulatory burden.

Maybe we'll start this time with Darcy and Joline.

[Darcy Griffith]

I would say that certainly the need for regulations exists, although the more time required to comply with those regulations, the less time there is to actually contact customers and have the ability to market or make sales. The difficulty is finding that medium middle ground between how much regulation is a proper amount and how much just becomes an undue hardship on businesses.

With regard to taxation, again, I think we benefit from living in a fantastic country with wonderful services. I think taxation is a reality and something we need to do. But at what point does it put undue hardship on a business and take money away from the ability to grow? Every dollar spent on taxation is a dollar that can't be spent hiring another employee.

So it's finding that middle ground between the two, where there's a reasonable amount of taxation but still money to put back into the growth of a business.

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Joline, as a young woman who has set up a business and has tripled the size of her organization, are you glad that we've reduced the tax rates? Is it helpful that we're reducing the red tape, or...? What is your view, Joline?