Official Languages Committee on May 29th, 2014

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Welcome to the 27th meeting of the Standing Committee on Official Languages. Today is Thursday, May 9, 2014.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108, we are here to study the economic situation of Canada's minority linguistic communities.

Today, we will be hearing from representatives of four groups. We are going to start with Mr. Antunes, from the Conference Board of Canada.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

A point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

On a point of order, Mr. Godin.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I have a motion that I would like to present to the committee. It reads as follows:

That the committee invite the Minister of Employment and Social Development Canada to appear before the committee before June 19th 2014 to explain why his department has refused to finance the project “Développer des pratiques innovantes en ACE pour la main-d’oeuvre qui vit en contexte linguistique minoritaire” which was developed by the Réseau pour le développement de l’alphabétisme et des compétences (RESDAC).

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you, Mr. Godin. That is a notice of motion, correct?

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Yes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Antunes, the floor is yours.

[Pedro Antunes, Deputy Chief Economist and Executive Director, Conference Board of Canada]

Thank you, Mr. Chair and members of the committee.

I am pleased to be with you today to talk briefly about two of our recent studies that deal with the topic you are considering today. One of those studies, which was completed in 2012, if I recall correctly, deals with the economic situation of the Canadian francophonie. The second study, which was completed in 2013, deals more specifically with francophone and Acadian communities outside Quebec, or, in other words, in minority territory.

Though they were conducted quite recently, the two studies are based on data from the 2006 census. There would be work to be done, therefore, if we wanted to bring the results up to date, but they do allow us to draw some meaningful conclusions.

First of all, the French-speaking population of Canada, meaning those whose first language is French, is 6.9 million, or about 22% of the total population. Quebec has 5.9 million French-speakers, representing 80% of the population. That still leaves about 1,952,000 people outside Quebec whose first language is French. The two biggest groups are in Ontario, with 500,000 francophones, and New Brunswick, with 233,000.

We observed, however, that the economic impact of the francophone community is still very significant. Average salaries in francophone communities are higher than the average in those regions. Unemployment rates, in general, are lower than the average in each of the regions. There are some exceptions to that.

Overall, the direct economic position of francophones represents 19.5% of GDP, of the country's income. I remind you that these are 2006 figures. That is a little lower than the demographic position, because francophones represent 22% of the country's population. This is explained by the fact that the average salary is lower in Quebec than in Canada. Since there are more francophones in Quebec, that aspect is weaker. However, region by region, the francophone contribution tends to be greater that the contribution of the rest of the population.

The contribution to the overall GDP is about $252 billion. It is important to note that the economic contribution of francophones goes beyond the community. With Statistics Canada's help, we used the supply chain. That is not conventional but we wanted to see what the economic impact would be outside the francophone community. We found a multiplier that is quite significant. The economic contribution of the francophone community generates $130 billion in additional activity outside that community.

Let us quickly talk about the challenges.

We see that the francophone population is older than the national average. We already knew that for Quebec. However, a significant part of Quebec's population is under 25 years of age, representing 30% of the total population. That means that 30% of the population is still young, even though we know that Quebec is an aging province. This is still much better than the francophone population outside Quebec. If we look at youth outside Quebec, we see that Ontario has the youngest demographic, but 22% of the francophone population is under 24. In New Brunswick, the figure is 25%. Put another way, the other communities are aging a lot.

That goes some way to explain why the growth of the francophone population outside Quebec has been so weak. In fact, according to the 2001 and 2006 censuses, the francophone population outside Quebec has essentially remained stable; there has been no growth. Outside Quebec, the proportion of francophones has fallen from 4.2% to 4% of the total population. We must not forget that the vast majority of francophones live in Quebec and francophones represent 22% of the total population.

The second study that we submitted to you does not necessarily deal with the population in general, but with francophone and Acadian communities in minority situations outside Quebec. There again, there is quite a significant decline.

As a whole, the population of Canada grew by about 5.4% between the 2001 and 2006 censuses. It is important to observe, not only the total francophone population, but also the influence of communities that are principally francophone. The total population growth was only 1.7% in the 75 communities that were studied.

Employment growth is also weaker in communities located in the rest of Canada. Between the two censuses, we see a general growth of 9% in employment. But that percentage was only 6% for francophone and Acadian communities. In relative terms, therefore, that is a decline.

At the Conference Board, as well as personally, we recognize the importance of French. Its economic contribution goes beyond the borders of the francophone community. French also contributes to our cultural and national identity.

We believe that it is important that an effort be made to stabilize the influence of those francophone communities and the francophone population, especially outside Quebec.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you.

We now move to Ms. Hébert, from the Conseil économique du Nouveau-Brunswick.

[Anne Hébert, Director General, Conseil économique du Nouveau-Brunswick]

Good morning.

My thanks to the committee for inviting our council to provide information about our province and our community.

The Conseil économique du Nouveau-Brunswick speaks for the francophone business community in New Brunswick. We have about 1000 members from all regions, in all sectors and of all sizes. We advocate for the interests of francophone companies in New Brunswick, recognizing their uniqueness and the challenges they face. The reason why the francophone business community needs its own voice is precisely the subject of your study: it is unique and it has unique challenges. We are there to remind various arms of government of that.

We also head the RDÉE Nouveau-Brunswick.

Francophone companies in New Brunswick are two and three generations old. In New Brunswick, francophone companies that have survived for three generations are old companies. We have no dynasties, no equivalents of the McCains or the Irvings in the anglophone community who can give back to the community through institutions supporting young entrepreneurs and leaders.

Our francophone entrepreneurs work mostly in traditional economies. Before becoming entrepreneurs, we had jobs in companies belonging to anglophone interests, if we were lucky enough to have jobs at all. Our entrepreneurs worked in sectors like fishing, agriculture and forestry. Today, our scope is broader, but we still began in those sectors and a large part of our population continues to work in them.

Our companies are required to change because of the knowledge economy and globalization. Today, everything is done differently. That requires a greater change for those in traditional occupations, which used to require less education. Today, it can be said that those people need to be as educated as those working in more technological areas.

Our institutions are relatively young. Compared to the University of New Brunswick, for example, which is the one of the oldest universities in North America, the French-language university, l’Université de Moncton, is only 50 years old in its present form. That had consequences. My parents studied using books written in English. Until not so long ago, higher education was seen to be the preserve of the elite. The francophone population did not have full access to it.

Our political power and our financial power are quite young. We are fortunate in New Brunswick in that our francophone population is concentrated. This allows us to elect francophones. However, up until 20 years ago, those elected representatives operated in an anglophone world. If I can give an analogy, it was like a woman pushing her way into an old boys club: we may have had our elected representatives, but the positions and the departments with the most influence and the most spending power were still controlled by anglophones. In the last 20 years, we have seen many more francophone ministers responsible for portfolios like finance, economic development and transportation. Twenty years ago, that was quite rare. Departments run by francophones were more likely to be social than economic in mandate. Basically, policy was more likely to be set by anglophones, who did not always understand our realities.

The francophone community is largely rural. In New Brunswick, most francophones live in rural areas while most anglophones live in urban areas. That poses challenges for our businesses and our people, because there is less infrastructure. High-speed Internet, for example, came last to the north of the province, where most francophones live. They still do not have natural gas. Limited access highways are much less common in the north of the province than in the south. Access to labour and to services is more difficult. Specialized services are more limited in the north of the province. These are additional challenges that our companies have to face, challenges that translate into higher costs. To an extent, our companies lag behind those in major centres.

The level of education of rural francophones Is lower than that of francophones in the major urban centres. In addition, 20% of francophones 15 years of age and older have no diploma, whereas that figure among anglophones is 16%.

In literacy, the gap is even wider. Seventy percent of Francophones do not reach Level 3 literacy, the level needed for post-secondary education in college or university. For anglophones, that figure is 51%.

Rural areas are seeing a greater exodus. It is certainly true that the exodus is not as great today as it was 50 or 100 years ago, nor is it always greater than in urban areas. However, urban areas succeed in attracting people whereas our rural areas attract fewer people. As a result, the population is decreasing. Given that more francophones live in rural areas, this is a challenge that affects our population more than the anglophone population.

Let us talk about education levels in the urban areas of New Brunswick, meaning Moncton, Fredericton and Saint John. The city of Moncton has most francophones. Our graduation rates are higher than for anglophones. So in urban areas, we are achieving a lot of success.

The same goes for incomes. In urban areas, incomes for francophones are higher than for anglophones. However, given that most of our population lives in rural areas, when you consider the provincial average, our salaries are lower, just like our education levels. Let me give you an example of that reality. Francophones in Fredericton earn on average $8,000 more than anglophones, but, given the small number of francophones who live in urban areas, the effect is not felt provincially.

This creates inequalities in the development of francophone communities. Often, programs that are constructed equally across the country and even across the province do not meet the real challenges with which the francophone community of New Brunswick is faced. We have our own unique challenges. So the programs have to be flexible and sensitive to those challenges and that uniqueness.

The RDÉE Nouveau-Brunswick is an example. Its initiatives are sensitive to the needs of the community. They are established according to those needs. That means that a program may exist for the minority francophone community although it does not exist for the anglophone community.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you.

We now move to Mr. Chiasson, from MC Consultants enr.

[Maurice Chiasson, Consultant, MC Consultants enr.]

I first want to thank you for having invited me to share my thoughts with your committee.

Like Anne, I am from New Brunswick. I grew up in a official language minority community. However, I sometimes felt that it was more an official language majority community, because I lived in the northeast of New Brunswick, with its significant francophone population.

That said, over the last 20 years, I have worked with communities all over Canada.

You have in your hands the text I prepared. I will start by reading it to you and by adding comments about some parts of the text. Basically, I am going to deal with three themes: the diverse nature of the francophonie, the entrepreneurial culture, and the competence of the labour force. In recent years, I have observed that those three themes are increasingly important in allowing our minority official language communities to develop and prosper.

Let us begin by talking about the diverse nature of the francophonie.

Basically, the minority francophone environment in our country is made up of approximately one million native French speakers. However, we feel that that francophone space is not limited only to native French speakers, but should also include other French speakers. According to data from the 2011 census, there are more than 1.6 million of these other French speakers in the provinces and territories outside Quebec.

These other French speakers, or francophiles, are immigrants from Europe or Africa in particular. Their first official languages is French, but they have another mother tongue aside from French. These individuals may also have learned French or improved their French-language skills as part of an interlinguistic couple, commonly known as exogamous couples. In some regions of the country, these couples represent up to 70% of families in minority communities. We estimate nevertheless that the impact of immersion schools throughout the country has been the main factor that has expanded this francophone space over the years.

In short, as I mentioned, if we include the other users of French, there are 2.6 million citizens in francophone minority communities.

This demographic evolution means that the francophone culture in minority communities is bound to change. However, we feel that the French language constitutes the main component of identity. In order to ensure its long-term survival in minority communities, we maintain that French must be fostered in a broader environment, not only in schools and in the home. The French language must be used in an environment that includes the other French users, that is to say the anglophones who speak French, as well as these new francophone Canadians with their particular history and respective cultural traits. Most of them want to contribute and enrich the francophone space in our country. We must welcome them.

I acknowledge that I have had unique experiences in some areas, particularly in Atlantic Canada. I am thinking about Prince Edward Island, as one example. I felt that trying to get first-language francophones and francophiles to work together was sometimes a challenge. It is not that francophones object to it, but they have a little difficulty, perhaps because of their history, in opening up to this new francophonie. That is what I have noticed. However, as the previous witness mentioned, our minority francophone population is aging and we have to open ourselves to this new francophonie.

Take Prince Edward Island. According to the data in the 2011 census, there are 5,600 people whose first language is French. However, there are probably more than 11,500 francophiles, meaning anglophones or allophones who, in the last census, replied that they could carry on a conversation in French. So we see that the island's francophone space goes from 5,600 people whose first language is French to more than 17,000 francophiles who can use French.

We find the same scenario in other provinces and territories. Take Ontario, for example; it has more than 561,000 people whose first language is French. However, in the last census, more than 850,000 Ontarians replied that they could carry on a conversation in French. The francophone space can therefore be calculated at 1.4 million people who can use French in Ontario.

The last example is Newfoundland and Labrador. Between 2006 and 2011, statistics show an increase in the number of people whose first language is French. The province's economic boom is probably a contributing factor. We have gone from about 2,200 or 2,300 people whose first language is French to 3,000. However, according to Statistics Canada, there are probably more than 23,000 French users in Newfoundland and Labrador.

So you can see that, when we talk about the diverse nature of the francophonie, we are not just counting people whose first language is French, but others in the community who can speak French. Like it or not, it all has economic repercussions.

From an economic perspective, these other French speakers are essential in terms of entrepreneurial new blood and the labour force. They can also build bridges between various markets in Canada and abroad. Because of their origins, we believe that these other French speakers can create links among multiple markets, without being limited only to those of our national francophonie and the international one

For all of those reasons, we submit that government action in minority environments must foster the integration of these other French speakers.

That is the first point I wanted to highlight for you. At the end of my presentation, I will provide you with three recommendations, on of which comes back to this point.

Now I would like to talk about entrepreneurial culture.

I have been in business for more than 20 years. For 10 or so years, I was an employee of RDÉE Canada, but, at the same time, I always had my own businesses. I noticed certain things, including in my own family. Some of my cousins or uncles were in business. Over the years, I realized that fewer and fewer of them wanted to start a company. I believe that entrepreneurship is needed for a community to develop, whether the language is English or French.

I came across a Business Development Bank of Canada report, released in 2012, that revealed a gradual decline in entrepreneurial performance in Canada. In short, the entrepreneurship rate has been stagnating or in decline in our country since 2005. Minority francophone communities are not immune to that trend. The stagnation, and particularly the fact that Canadians are less interested in going into business, seems to me to be somewhat of a concern.

Consequently, it seems essential to us that additional efforts be deployed over the coming years to give young people, and those less young, a taste for going into business. Baby boomer entrepreneurs are gradually retiring, leaving businesses in their wake that are closing their doors for lack of someone to take them over. The situation is making certain communities even more fragile. In the west of Canada, and in the east, I have seen businesses with no one to take them over. If they are taken over, it is by anglophones or immigrants. If they are not, they simply shut their doors. That has a significant effect on our communities. It is a reality that we need to consider.

In addition, we believe that the self-employment enterprise model must be reinforced and supported. Whether in Gravelbourg, Saskatchewan, Pointe-de-l'Église, Nova Scotia, Casselman in eastern Ontario or Iqaluit in Nunavut, technology provides access to markets, and potential clients throughout the world. That business model allows for flexible schedules and a work-family balance that is increasingly sought after. Of course, you have to have a taste for the entrepreneurial adventure: you have to dive in and be persistent.

At one point, I came across some interesting statistics about Quebec. According to those statistics, 500,000 Quebeckers are self-employed. I am one of them, and I can tell you that, in my opinion, it is important for the government to support this form of entrepreneurship.

Moreover, the organizations in minority environments play a major role in the development of our communities. Whether they are active in the cultural arena, in education, health, or economic development, they all, in their particular areas, have an impact on the communities' economy. Cultural organizations or enterprises showcase our talents and cultural specificity, thus enriching our tourist sector. Those who work in education train the workers of tomorrow. A labour force that is healthy and well will better meet the needs of the workplace.

In that spirit, we believe that we must better support the creativity of community leaders by giving them the tools not only to diversify their funding sources for their respective organizations, but also to optimize their impact in our communities. Just like private entrepreneurs, the contribution of these community leaders is essential to the economic development of the communities.

The competence of the labour force is the third topic I would like to discuss with you.

The challenge of the labour shortage in Canada is not only about a physical lack of employees. It also means that a certain part of the population cannot access the labour market, and thus meet the needs of employers, because of the significant lack of basic skills.

Employment and Social Development Canada has determined that a worker must have nine fundamental skills to integrate the labour market and contribute to it adequately. These skills, or knowledge, that are at the basis for learning all of the other skills, include reading, writing, knowing how to consult documents, and so on.

To these basic skills must be added some generic skills, or self-management skills, and some specialized or technical skills, or know-how. An employee should have 22 generic skills. In a job offer, these are also does often described as “required qualifications” or “other professional skills”. As for specialized or technical skills, there are many, and they vary according to the job.

In addition, the way in which young people see the labour market and their expectations vis-à-vis employers are also responsible for an evolution in the organization of work. We believe that a certain category of employer needs support in order to learn new ways of doing things and new labour market practices and to adapt to them, whether they are flexible schedules, for instance, or ways of guiding and supporting their employees. That adaptation is all the more necessary in the context of a labour shortage. I find that this aspect is very important. At the moment, we have people in the labour market who do not have the same concept of work as older generations did. Something special needs to be done in that situation; we need to provide entrepreneurs with support so that the influx of young workers into the job market is properly integrated.

Let me conclude by telling you that my three recommendations are in the document. In a nutshell, they deal with an openness to a diverse francophonie, with an entrepreneurial culture, and with the competence of the workforce, an area where there is a need to assist employers more, including when integrating employees into the company.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you, Mr. Chiasson.

You will be able to talk to the committee about your three recommendations in the hour we have set aside for questions and comments.

[Maurice Chiasson]

Fine, thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

We now move to Mr. Allen, from the Economic Development Council for Manitoba Bilingual Municipalities.

[Louis Allain, Director General, Economic Development Council for Manitoba Bilingual Municipalities]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

To make you feel better, I would like to tell you that it will be 28 degrees in Manitoba today. That is plus 28, not minus 28.

I had prepared a text, but, given the limited time I have, I am going to wing it, in order to explain the situation in Manitoba, in western Canada.

First, I will give you a bit of history about the Economic Development Council for Manitoba Bilingual Municipalities, the CDEM.

Our organization is part of Canada's great RDÉE family. We have been working in bilingual municipalities since 1996. To fully understand the concept of bilingual municipalities, you have to understand that our territory has been quite well defined in all the regions of Manitoba where francophone populations are to be found. Luckily for us, our population is quite concentrated geographically, with a critical mass close to the city of Winnipeg. I myself come from St. Laurent, a small French-speaking Metis community on Lake Manitoba that was flooded in 2011. It is also awaiting the return of its exhibition, now in the Smithsonian in Washington. They have been putting off returning our artifacts for two years; it is the most popular exhibition in the museum that Mr. Cardinal built.

Aside from the economic issues, we have the whole question of the economic viability of our communities and our OLMCs. I am going to deal with that in my presentation because sometimes, in a climate of prosperity, it has an impact and can make for surprises in development terms.

I often compare the CDEM to an organization like the Franciscans. We exist to serve and to help. We count on the support from 14 community business development corporation (CDCs) working in 17 bilingual municipalities. Those who know Manitoba reasonably well know that the Red River rises in the United States and flows into Lake Winnipeg. Thirty per cent of the francophone population lives in that corridor. Fifty per cent of the francophone population lives in Winnipeg, but not all in St. Norbert, St. Vital and Saint Boniface. Some also live on the other side of the river.

There are also areas that are a little more remote, like St-Georges and Powerview-Pine Falls. The latter is a resource area that lost its paper mill ten years ago or so; its economic development is fragile. In St. Laurent, the quite unique Metis community I mentioned earlier, the climate is pretty ideal. It is cottage country, with fishing in the lake, agriculture and a meat packing plant. St. Lazare, near the border with Saskatchewan, has the advantage of its proximity to Rocanvillle, where there is a large potash mine and a red-hot economy from the oil in the Bakken. The growth there looks a lot like the resource regions of Saskatchewan and Alberta. It is a real boom situation, with full employment.

Aside from the geography and the CDCs at work in the communities, we need to remember that, from the standpoint of growth and sustainable development, the topic of your study, the CDEM model is very interesting. It has even been used in Africa, in the form of a five-year project with Mali and Burkina Faso. Those countries have copied the CDEM model, pure and simple. In Mali, they have a CADEL and in Burkina Faso, they have a CDEL, as well as CDCs. They have economic development support cells in each of their communities. It all started with a cross-border project.

Not only did our model give rise to an RDÉE, but it has also become a model internationally. One of the model’s great strengths is that CDCs are able to keep their assets. They go back to the people, though they are not in competition with the private sector, and they are aware of their environment. That is the strength of the model.

At the moment, the CDEM is in accommodation provided by the Entreprises Riel Corporation, which owns a number of real estate projects. It has a wonderful tourist program for the city of Winnipeg and a lot of programs for its communities.

The same thing is true in rural areas. I come from St. Laurent, the community that probably had the fewest means. You will find a corporation there that has recently burned the mortgage on the health centre it owns, meaning that it is now celebrating over $1 million in assets. That is equally true for several other communities that, in some cases, have several million dollars in assets. That is important to bear in mind, given that we are talking about sustainable development and the ability to determine our long-term growth.

Our analysis of the situation is built on three realities, which I am going to present to you. One is urban, the second is periurban and the third is rural. That is the situation we are seeing more and more in Manitoba. We are facing more or less the same phenomenon as the world is facing: massive urbanization that has a lot of impact in the periurban zones. That clearly leaves the rural world with very few avenues for development, at least those in its own control. That is why I will tell you later about the structures we have put in place in order to ensure the viability and vitality of those communities.

There is strong urban growth. Winnipeg is a bit like Regina and Saskatoon. It is home to very catalytic projects, like CentrePort. It is a phenomenal situation. You may know that, in 2013, we had an average unemployment rate of 5.3%, ranking Winnipeg third in Canada. That is a sign that, in terms of employment, we are at a very favourable point in our situation. As I said earlier, some places have full employment. In that context, the challenges are different.

A lot of our francophone communities are located in the periurban zone. They are also experiencing a demographic boom, with significant population increases, though their francophone nature is somewhat in peril. Proportionally, francophones are becoming more and more the minority. In some places, they can represent 10% to 15% of the municipality.

Of course, that requires a lot of vigilance on our part to keep the ground we have gained. There again, it is because of the structure that links economic development and the territory. The notion of designated territory was developed in Manitoba in the Chartier report and was something borrowed from the Australians. It is the same idea as bike paths: protected areas for our communities.

In rural areas, one challenge is important to point out. Unless they are able to do something about it, the areas further from the first two zones I described just now are much more vulnerable. It is really in their interests to do something about their situations with their economic development corporations, and also with all other groups involved.

In Manitoba, we are trying to work more and more with all the organizations on the ground to guarantee that rural development is effective and efficient. I will talk more about that later. There are still a lot of challenges in terms of material and human resources. The further you are from the centre, the harder it becomes.

You are probably wondering what happens with the francophones who are not fortunate enough to be included in the designated territory. We are trying more and more to make sure that we can provide services to all those groups, especially in terms of entrepreneurship.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you, Mr. Allain. You had 10 minutes.

We will now move on to Mr. Godin for questions and comments.

We only have one hour to discuss the testimonies we have heard.

[Louis Allain]

Okay.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Mr. Godin, you have the floor.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to welcome all the witnesses.

Mr. Allain is not with us in this room, but we met with him not long ago. It is always a pleasure to speak to you again.

The same is true for you, Ms. Hébert, and for you, Mr. Antunes and Mr. Chiasson.

My first question is for Ms. Hébert of the Conseil économique du Nouveau-Brunswick.

You spoke briefly in your presentation about the Réseau de développement économique et d'employabilité du Canada. Could you tell us how the RDEE supports you in your mission to develop New Brunswick's francophone business community?

[Anne Hébert]

There is an RDEE in every Canadian province, as well as in the three territories. This federal program is fairly flexible, in that each RDEE coordinator works with players on the ground to determine the needs and put in place programs or activities that work for the community.

The minority language communities in each Canadian province have their own specific challenges. For example, New Brunswick is officially bilingual. Services in French to businesses are provided by the provincial government. Our organization does not need to.

The situation is different for Prince Edward Island and Nova Scotia. The government is not required to provide services in French to businesses. The RDEE does this job in part.

As I mentioned earlier, the exodus in our rural regions is a problem. We have put in place initiatives that enable us to find young people from our area who are working in other provinces and put them in contact with companies in their region, in New Brunswick. That lets them return to their province.

We have launched other initiatives. For example, we have brought in cruise ships to the northern part of the province. An entrepreneur in the province would not launch initiatives like this.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

What more could the government do to help the rural regions?

You know New Brunswick well, just like Mr. Chiasson does. Everyone here knows what is going on. You spoke about the problems in the province's northeast. You said that 66% of the population is illiterate. Those people cannot even attain a post-secondary level. It's distressing.

Mr. Antunes, you said that French speakers are the best paid. If I remember correctly, the figure you mentioned was 19.5%.

[Pedro Antunes]

Indeed, I said that in almost every province, economic contribution of the francophonie, that is, people whose mother tongue is French, their wages are higher than the provincial average. However, there are some exceptions, and New Brunswick is one of them.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

There has to be because in northern New Brunswick where I'm from, people were working for minimum wage in the forestry and fishing industries. It's shameful to say this, but some people even had to pay to get a job. I'm not telling you a very happy story, but it's the reality.

As if that wasn't enough, the government made cuts to the employment insurance program, which affects seasonal fishing jobs in northeastern New Brunswick. We did not choose to live there; it was where we were born. It's our region, our community. To the people who enjoy lobster, cod and scallops: those things come from my region and you can't fish for them in the winter. There is a lack of respect for the seasonal industry.

Ms. Hébert, I would like to hear what you have to say about this. It's as if the government thought that making cuts to the employment insurance program wasn't serious. However, that isn't what employers in our regions are saying. They are starting to have difficulty in recruiting employees because people are leaving the region. Our unemployment rate is 16%, and there is talk of bringing in immigrants on a temporary basis to fill these jobs. I find that curious. You might say that something there isn't working.

[Anne Hébert]

It goes back to the fact that, most of the time, federal programs are implemented laterally. The same thing is true in every province. You gave the perfect example of this. The employment insurance program is insurance in case someone loses his or her job. The situation is completely different for seasonal jobs. There should be a different program that deals with the problem of seasonal work. We have put this problem under the employment insurance program when we know that it is not an issue that comes under that program. Individuals know that their job will end at the end of the season. It happens every year. It's as if we were making a claim to our auto insurance company every year. We should implement a different program to address this problem. We had another program that had adverse effects.

If the employment insurance program had not existed, some companies would still have harvested lobster, crab and shrimp.