Official Languages Committee on June 9th, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Your sound is good.

I have a surprise for you: I'm giving you a block of seven and a half minutes to ask your questions, which combines your two previous rounds.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Great. Thank you very much.

Mr. Jacques, during the May 9 meeting, you informed us that Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada could ask private companies to open additional visa application centres. Can you explain how you determine whether the department needs to open another visa office, or in other words, what criteria you use to decide to open another visa application centre?

[Olivier Jacques]

One of the criteria we use to decide whether to open a new visa application centre is the number of applications from applicants who have to provide their biometric data. We regularly review this number, or volume. If there is an increase in volume in a certain region of the world, or in a country where we don't have a visa application centre, we will ask, in consultation with the service provider, to open a visa application centre. It's a business decision, and that's why we talk about volume. We want to make sure that it's viable for our provider to offer this service, which will be funded by the clients who have to provide their biometric data.

Security is another criterion we use. Sometimes it's not possible to open a visa application centre in a given country for security reasons, if it's dangerous to open it, or we're not in a position to do so.

So it's security and cost considerations that determine the choice.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

I'm going to talk about the double standard when it comes to French-speaking countries. Why are efforts to recruit French-speaking immigrants disproportionately successful in some regions compared to others?

If we look at the proportion of francophones residing in the countries of origin in relation to the number of permanent residence visas granted, the number of new permanent residents from Madagascar, Gabon, Congo or Niger is 10 times lower than the number of new residents from Algeria or France. Do we have a double standard? What are the structural problems within Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada that lead to this discrepancy?

[Alain Desruisseaux]

I'll ask Mr. Jacques to answer, and I'll add to his answer if necessary.

[Olivier Jacques]

The department evaluates English-speaking and French-speaking immigrant applications in the same way and according to the same criteria, regardless of the country of origin. There's no difference in the way applications are processed and in the selection criteria applied by public servants.

I don't know the specific situation of the countries mentioned. Why are there far fewer applicants from Madagascar? I don't know the exact situation in Madagascar, but there may be fewer applicants who qualify for our immigration programs. It's also possible that our immigration programs are less well known in this country. I'm speculating here, but it may be a question of promotion and the ability of applicants to qualify for our immigration programs.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Thank you for those comments. It's not just Madagascar. The figures are similar in Gabon, Congo and Niger. There seems to be the same problem in several countries.

There's also the fact that the average application fee for a family of four is $2,400 under the home child care provider program. Do you think these high fees explain why Canada has trouble attracting immigrants from less affluent countries?

[Olivier Jacques]

I don't have an opinion on whether the fees are too high or not. However, applicants are indeed responsible for raising the money needed for processing fees. They must also demonstrate that they have a certain amount of money at their disposal to settle in Canada. It's true that this can be a particular challenge for applicants from certain African countries, whose socio-economic conditions are not the same as elsewhere in the world. It can therefore be more difficult, in some cases, to raise this sum to immigrate.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Is the department making an effort to determine whether the $2,400 amount, for example, constitutes a barrier for families, particularly from certain countries, who want to immigrate to Canada?

[Olivier Jacques]

I'm not aware of that.

[Alain Desruisseaux]

I think that goes beyond the scope of the department. It's an issue that concerns all stakeholders in Canada. In fact, immigration is a national project that concerns us all.

Does Canada offer a globally competitive position? I think we're all looking at this question in depth. In fact, it's all the conditions that make the country more or less attractive. The fact remains that Canada remains a destination of choice and is well positioned. Promotional activities remain essential to ensure that our new arrivals are fully aware of the advantages we have to offer.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

However, an effort needs to be made to determine whether the $2,400 fee that currently exists for the home child care provider program is a barrier for many French-speaking countries, particularly in Central Africa and Madagascar, for example.

I'd also like to ask you about the labour shortage. According to the Canadian Association of Immersion Professionals, 10,000 teachers are needed to meet the current demand for French immersion and French as a second language across Canada. We're well aware of this shortage here in Manitoba and in western Canada.

How can we solve this teacher shortage and attract the professionals we need to maintain public services, schools and day cares in French? What is the department doing to recruit teachers and early childhood educators to teach in French or French immersion?

[Alain Desruisseaux]

I'll start by answering the question, then turn to my colleagues at Canadian Heritage if they'd like to round out my answer.

I'd like to mention a measure in the action plan for official languages: the corridor for the selection and retention of French teachers in Canada. This measure targets the problem you raise, and was the subject of consensus during our public consultations. We are well aware of the importance of this problem in most of our communities.

The process will continue to consolidate measures already in place to facilitate the settlement and integration of newcomers, with an emphasis on strengthening initiatives that are already very successful, such as the welcoming francophone communities initiative.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Desruisseaux. I know it's short, but we're well over Ms. Ashton's time, as we're at eight and a half minutes.

Ms. Ashton, you can speak again later if you have any further questions.

We'll now give the floor to Marc Dalton for five minutes.

[Marc Dalton, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses as well.

Mr. Desruisseaux, the Réseau de développement économique et d'employabilité states that there is a mismatch between the country's real labour needs and the profiles of selected candidates. What is the source of this problem and, in your opinion, what corrective measures need to be taken?

[Alain Desruisseaux]

It essentially concerns our selection policies, which articulate a set of criteria that guide our choices. There has been a great deal of progress over the years in terms of matching labour needs with applicant profiles. We note that, on the whole, economic immigration programs are successful and work well.

There are challenges. The match isn't always perfect, but we understand that the economy is evolving, as are labour market needs. Round tables are in place, which are essential for keeping an eye on changing needs. This involves all stakeholders. When the immigration levels plan is drawn up, all partners are consulted. So—

[Marc Dalton, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

I'm going to have to interrupt you, as I don't have much time.

A witness told us at the last meeting that 90% of immigrants don't work in their field of expertise. Yet these people who come here are the cream of the crop in their countries. This situation is maddening, frustrating and discouraging. It's a loss for their country and a waste for us in Canada. I'd like to hear your comments on this.

[Alain Desruisseaux]

I think communication is crucial. When promoting Canada as a destination of choice, it's important that information about the opportunities available is clear, the aim being to manage expectations. Efforts are made to clarify the challenges, difficulties and opportunities. However, our candidates also have a duty to inform themselves.

Credential recognition was mentioned earlier. It's certainly a persistent challenge that affects a number of candidates.

[Marc Dalton, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

Let me give you a more specific example. In Canada, there are 20,000 doctors and over 30,000 nurses who don't work in the health care field. That's a real loss for us, given the shortage of doctors. These figures apply to Canada as a whole, but can you tell us if the situation is the same for francophone and francophile immigrants?

[Alain Desruisseaux]

Unfortunately, I don't have any detailed information that would enable me to distinguish French-speaking candidates from others who might be faced with such a situation. It's a little beyond the scope of my responsibilities, but—

[Marc Dalton, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

Excuse me, but I only have a few seconds at my disposal.

Doesn't the fact that skilled immigrants can't enter our professional communities discourage them from coming here? Doesn't that encourage them to immigrate elsewhere?

[Alain Desruisseaux]

We bring in large numbers of skilled workers, and many skilled workers dream of coming here. Despite the obstacles—

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Desruisseaux. I have to be fair to everyone.

I'll now give the floor to Mr. Iacono for five minutes.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd also like to thank the witnesses for being here this morning.

Mr. Jacques, can you tell us where Canada's largest francophone immigration pool is located, and what measures the government is taking to promote our country to the francophone populations in this pool?

[Olivier Jacques]

The country with the largest French-speaking immigration pool outside Quebec is Cameroon, in Africa, which had significant numbers in 2022, but also in 2023.

What are we doing to promote Canada to Cameroon's French-speaking population? First, there are marketing activities. In particular, we've bought advertising on Google to promote immigration to Canada to those who might be interested in Cameroon and other French-speaking countries.

Next, we began organizing virtual and in-person sessions to promote immigration to Canada, during which we talk about the immigration process and French-speaking communities outside Quebec to interested candidates.

Finally, there's the Destination Canada Mobility Forum event. As I said, this is an annual forum in which people can also participate online. There are candidates from Cameroon who attend to get information and decide if they're interested in immigrating to Canada.