Evidence of meeting #86 for Official Languages in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was entrepreneurs.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Gilles Grenier  Professor Emeritus, University of Ottawa, As an Individual
Karen Greve Young  Chief Executive Officer, Futurpreneur Canada
Pierre-Marcel Desjardins  Professor, University of Moncton, As an Individual
Kenneth Deveau  Chief Executive Officer, Conseil de développement économique de la Nouvelle-Écosse

4 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal René Arseneault

This meeting is called to order.

Welcome to meeting number 86 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Official Languages.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(3) and the motion adopted by the committee on September 20, 2023, the committee is resuming its study on the economic development of official language minority communities.

I will summarize the instructions and guidelines for those joining us virtually. It has been three years since we started using the Zoom application, so we are used to it. Nonetheless, I wish to inform the committee that, in accordance with our routine motion regarding sound tests, all the witnesses have performed the required tests before the start of the meeting. Everything is in order, so the interpreters should be able to hear everyone well and we can proceed smoothly in both official languages.

Today, we have a special visitor for the first hour of the meeting. Mr. Gilles Grenier, professor emeritus from the University of Ottawa, is appearing as an individual. We also welcome Ms. Karen Greve Young, the CEO of Futurpreneur Canada, who is joining us by videoconference.

Before we begin, I apologize for starting late. Such are the uncertainties of parliamentary life. There were two votes in the House before the meeting, which delayed us by about 15 minutes.

As a result, I will be very strict with your speaking time. To our esteemed guests, you will each have five minutes to tell us a bit...

Would you like to say something, Mr. Godin?

4 p.m.

Conservative

Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

Yes, Mr. Chair, I would like to know how the time will be divided. It is 4 p.m. now. We have lost half an hour. The meeting was originally supposed to be divided into two one-hour parts. How will we proceed now?

4 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal René Arseneault

For the first part, we will start with a full series of questions. Then, time permitting, we will have a second round of questions, but with reduced speaking time.

4 p.m.

Conservative

Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

What does that mean in practical terms?

4 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal René Arseneault

It will be reduced by half.

4 p.m.

Conservative

Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

So we will have two 45-minute sessions, is that right?

4 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal René Arseneault

No, that's not what I meant.

We will finish the first part of the meeting at 4:30, and will then have an hour with the next group of witnesses.

Another option would indeed be to divide the meeting into two 45-minute parts. Is that agreeable to everyone?

4 p.m.

Some members

Agreed.

4 p.m.

Liberal

Darrell Samson Liberal Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS

For my part, I have to leave at 5:30.

4 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal René Arseneault

Yes, you have important obligations, I have no doubt.

So the committee agrees that we will divide the meeting into two 45-minute parts.

I will give each witness five minutes. I will be strict with the time to leave us more time for questions and answers.

Let us begin with Mr. Grenier.

4 p.m.

Gilles Grenier Professor Emeritus, University of Ottawa, As an Individual

Hello, everyone. Thank you for inviting me.

I am a professor emeritus in the economics department at the University of Ottawa.

I will present the findings of some of my past research that relates to the committee's concerns. The research looked at the economics of the labour market and included the links between language and immigration on the one hand, and salaries and financial status on the other. The research looked at Canada as a whole, at Quebec, and at the other provinces to some extent, including Ontario and New Brunswick. The data was drawn from various Canadian census records. I used the econometric methods that economists use to analyze the effects of certain variables on other variables.

Here is an overview of what I learned from that research.

In Quebec, the income levels and financial status of francophones have improved relative to anglophones since the 1970s.

I also did research on Ontario and made some interesting findings. Francophones in Ontario have very good incomes relative to anglophones. That is not the problem. The problem in Ontario is the reduction in the demographic weight of francophones as a result of assimilation and immigration, which is very high. As to the language spoken at home, francophones account for just 2% of Ontario's population.

The situation in New Brunswick is also interesting. In the past, francophones had lower incomes than anglophones, but they have caught up quite a bit in recent decades. The proportion of francophones in New Brunswick has dropped a bit, but it is steady. On the whole, francophone communities in New Brunswick are holding quite strong.

In Ontario, the problem is with the numbers, but francophones do quite well financially.

I also conducted a few studies on immigration and its impacts on the official languages. My recent research focused primarily on Quebec, and Montreal in particular, to determine what percentage of immigrants integrate into the francophone or anglophone community in terms of the language used at home and at work.

On the whole, my research showed that immigrants use English more than French at home and at work as compared to non-immigrants. Immigration therefore increases the prevalence of English and decreases that of French. That is the case not only in Quebec, but in the other provinces as well.

Up until about 2016, however, new immigrant cohorts in Quebec tended to use French more and more, so the impact on the prevalence of French was minimal. Unfortunately for the French language, the 2021 census showed a reversal of the trend, with recent immigrants using English much more than French, contributing to the decline of French.

My research showed that immigrants' country of origin was a determining factor in the language community they choose. Given the global prevalence of English, immigrants are likely to choose English if they have no prior ties to French. So the immigrants' country of origin plays a decisive role in the language they choose.

Other studies also looked at the effect of language of work on income, for both francophones and anglophones in Quebec and for immigrants. The results were a bit disappointing for French, as the research showed that a francophone could earn more by working in English, while an anglophone, even a bilingual one, did not earn more by working in French. The best outcome was for those who worked about 75% of the time in English and 25% of the time in French, as they earned more than those who worked in English or French only. So English is a necessity and French is just an asset. That is one conclusion.

I also conducted research on immigrants in Quebec and the results were the same: immigrants could earn more by working in English.

In conclusion, since English is the dominant language globally and immigration is the main source of population growth, it is becoming increasingly difficult to maintain linguistic balance in Canada.

Thank you.

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal René Arseneault

Thank you very much, Mr. Grenier.

Ms. Greve Young, the floor is yours for a tight five minutes.

Go ahead.

4:05 p.m.

Karen Greve Young Chief Executive Officer, Futurpreneur Canada

Thank you very much.

Dear members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to speak with you today.

My name is Karen Greve Young. I am the CEO of Futurpreneur Canada. We are a national non-profit organization that helps diverse aspiring entrepreneurs launch successful businesses across the country.

We have a long-standing partnership with the Government of Canada, consistently working together since 2001 and, in fact, in Futurpreneur's 27-year history, we have supported more than 17,700 entrepreneurs aged 18 to 39 in launching more than 14,000 businesses spanning every province and territory. Quebec has been our largest province to date.

Our unique model combines up to $60,000 of collateral-free loan financing alongside one-to-one mentorship, and we have a unique partnership with the BDC through which we co-lend our resources.

We fill a critical gap by helping diverse young entrepreneurs who otherwise might struggle to access the financing and mentorship they need to launch a successful business.

We provide all of our services in both official languages, French and English, to all our clients across the country no matter where they are. As a national Canadian organization, we always ensure that we consistently serve entrepreneurs in the official language of their choice. In fact, I have been with Futurpreneur for five years. Since I joined, we have grown our bilingual capacity by 82% to ensure seamless client support in both official languages.

Today, all of Futurpreneur's 120 employees are fluent in English, and nearly 50% of our staff are fluent in French, either francophone or fully bilingual. We have the capacity to communicate with and serve all clients and members of the public in either official language at any time in any region. Our Quebec-based staff are all fully bilingual and can serve English-speaking clients as well as francophone clients.

We purposely invest in francophone talent, skills and experience outside of Quebec to best serve and represent the diverse needs and experiences of official-language minority communities. Over half of our French-speaking staff are located outside Quebec, and every Futurpreneur team has at least one fully bilingual team member.

We also have more than a dozen team members, including myself, who can work in French, although they have not completely mastered the language and are not counted among the 50% of the team who are perfectly bilingual.

Futurpreneur is committed to inclusive economic impact and achieves this by helping diverse young entrepreneurs start and succeed. Recognizing and elevating the diversity of OLMC entrepreneurs, including newcomers, BIPOC entrepreneurs, 2SLGBTQIA+ entrepreneurs and people with disabilities, means taking an intersectional approach and understanding that linguistic barriers may be part of a wider set of systemic barriers.

As we are meeting during Black History Month, I do want to specifically note the importance of supporting Black entrepreneurs across Canada, many of whom are francophones outside of Quebec. One of the entrepreneurs who received a loan and mentorship through Futurpreneur's Black entrepreneur start-up program is Ingrid Brousillon, a francophone newcomer who settled in Vancouver. Ingrid is the founder of Griottes Polyglottes, a company focused on team-building and personal development through theatre workshops.

We recently featured Ingrid in our Black History Month storytelling campaign with an interview that you can find on our social media channels that seamlessly goes between French and English. Her story highlights the importance of ensuring that the entrepreneurial ecosystem can support OLMCs anywhere in Canada. In fact, Futurpreneur's Black entrepreneur's start-up program team, who are all members of the Black community, are bilingual and able to provide services in French or English.

Our indigenous entrepreneur start-up program, which is fully staffed by members of indigenous communities, also has members who can provide services in both English and French.

I do want to highlight the importance of partnerships with local, regional and national organizations, associations and networks that support OLMC entrepreneurs. Futurpreneur works with a variety of partners and organizations focused on OLMCs to refer or recruit entrepreneurs, to share information and best practices and to work on collaborative initiatives.

This model has been highly successful, and we consistently work with the ecosystem across Canada to ensure that programs adequately serve diverse young entrepreneurs in OLMCs, thus contributing to Canada's inclusive socio-economic development.

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal René Arseneault

Thank you, Ms. Greve Young.

Can you conclude in 10 seconds?

4:10 p.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Futurpreneur Canada

Karen Greve Young

Yes.

Supporting OLMC entrepreneurs has been and will continue to be core to Futurpreneur's work, and we look forward to continuing our successful partnership with the Government of Canada in support of inclusive economic development.

Thank you.

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal René Arseneault

Thank you very much, Ms. Young.

We're going to start the first round of questions. Each political party will have six minutes for questions and get answers. It will be interactive.

We're starting with the Conservatives. Mr. Godin, you have the floor for six minutes.

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Ms. Young and Mr. Grenier.

Through the study we're currently conducting, we want to learn about best practices for official language minority communities.

Mr. Grenier, you said that in Quebec, people who were bilingual had better incomes. Do you have any data indicating whether official language minority communities outside Quebec are experiencing economic gain or decline? We'll talk about demographics afterwards.

4:10 p.m.

Professor Emeritus, University of Ottawa, As an Individual

Gilles Grenier

I did some studies on this a while ago, but I don't have the most recent data. So I don't want to go too far.

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

I don't want the exact figures, but can you give us an order of magnitude?

4:10 p.m.

Professor Emeritus, University of Ottawa, As an Individual

Gilles Grenier

Okay.

As I said, as far as Ontario is concerned, all the economic results show that Franco-Ontarians are doing well economically. The Franco-Ontarian community is very dynamic and has a lot of entrepreneurs. According to income and labour market data, the situation is very good.

I haven't checked for all the provinces, but I think that's the case elsewhere as well, in general. As I said, there has been an improvement in New Brunswick, for example. Acadians in New Brunswick are doing relatively well economically.

So, in terms of the value of their contribution, the francophone communities, at least in Ontario and New Brunswick, are dynamic. They contribute to society and they have good economic conditions.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

Thank you, Mr. Grenier.

I will now turn to Ms. Young.

You ended your presentation by saying that you were open to new best practices.

What practices could improve the performance of official language minority communities, give them the tools they need to do better economically and make them more attractive, so that francophones in regions outside Quebec will want to settle there?

4:15 p.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Futurpreneur Canada

Karen Greve Young

Thank you for the question.

I will approach it from the employee side, as well as our services side.

As I mentioned, close to half of our bilingual employees live outside of Quebec. In fact, we pay a premium to employees who have English and French, because we value having the French language in order to serve francophone Canadians, wherever they live.

In terms of our services, again, we have francophone or French—

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

I'm sorry to interrupt you, Ms. Young. I understand that your organization has a structure and employees, but that's not exactly what I wanted to know.

In concrete terms, what additional tools would you like to have in your tool box so that your organization is better and can support people who want to settle in official language minority communities?

4:15 p.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Futurpreneur Canada

Karen Greve Young

That is interesting. I'm sorry. I did not fully understand your question.

We currently already serve francophone Canadians, regardless of where they live. We have francophone team members throughout the country. An additional tool that we are currently using, but could use more of, is partnerships with organizations that are in rural communities where we have a number of francophone Canadians. We currently have 21 partnerships. We could have more to ensure that we have people in place, in addition to our staff members.

Having online tools is also very helpful, so that an anglophone in Quebec or a francophone, wherever they are across the country, has access to all of our webinars, which are always—

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

I'm sorry to interrupt you, Ms. Young, but I don't have much time left.

I guess what I'm asking is this. What would you ask the government to do to make the regions more attractive and more prosperous? What tools can we put in your tool box to enable you to enhance prosperity in regions that include official language minority communities?