Official Languages Committee on Feb. 12th, 2024

[Marc Dalton, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses.

Mr. Desjardins, you talked about the definition of small business, and that worried me a little. We're making significant investments, and we don't want to waste money. We want to do the best we can to help francophone businesses in minority communities.

Can you elaborate on that a little more? What definition would you suggest to describe what constitutes a francophone business? What would you suggest we do?

[Pierre-Marcel Desjardins]

Earlier we were talking about francophone entrepreneurs. Is it the manager or is it the business owner? That's what needs to be defined. That's part of the challenge.

In francophone minority communities, it doesn't matter if the president, owner or manager of a business is anglophone, as long as the employees can operate and work in French. I would consider that a francophone business, in a way, because the francophones in those communities can work there.

I tend to have a slightly broader definition of what constitutes a francophone business. Let's consider, for example, a multinational corporation that sets up in a community, but employs francophone people from that community. Even if it's a German company, it still enables people to live and work in their community, and in French. Given these kinds of situations, I think we need to have a fairly broad definition.

[Marc Dalton, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

From your perspective, is it worth investing in these companies?

[Pierre-Marcel Desjardins]

Absolutely.

In the past, people often had to leave their communities in order to find employment. Now, when a region has lots of economic activity, they at least have a choice. I would never criticize anyone who wants to go elsewhere to make a living. However, what I do see as a serious problem is when people want to stay in their communities—often rural francophone communities—but they're forced to go elsewhere because of the lack of opportunities and choices.

Economic activity is always beneficial, whether it's local entrepreneurs or companies from elsewhere setting up in the community. If we can generate economic activity that creates high-quality jobs, in other words, jobs that enable people to make a good living, that should be applauded.

[Marc Dalton, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

A witness who appeared just before you talked about the housing crisis, which is adding to the challenges around integrating immigrants, not only from francophone countries, but from other countries too.

Mr. Deveau, you talked about how important francophone immigrants are to Nova Scotia and the Maritimes.

Do you sense similar tensions where you're from? Are you able to provide assistance to immigrants in your regions? I'm from Vancouver myself, and I know we're facing this challenge. Can you talk about that aspect?

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Mr. Dalton, that's an excellent question, but your time is up. Thank you very much.

Mr. Serré, over to you, for four minutes.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank our two witnesses, Mr. Deveau from Nova Scotia and Mr. Desjardins from New Brunswick. I myself am a proud Franco-Ontarian from northern Ontario. Your comments make me feel right at home. In fact, I'm sure we have cousins in common. I really appreciate the information you provided.

I don't have much time, but I'd like to ask a question about the role of the provinces and municipalities. When we talk about labour shortages, that often includes a lack of services in French, especially in the areas of health and education, which are under provincial jurisdiction. There are also problems related to French-language services in the legal system.

Do you have any specific recommendations for the committee on how to work more closely with the provinces?

A number of national organizations have indicated that, in minority situations, the federal government should intervene. We are, after all, citizens of the provinces, and the provinces have a role to play.

Do you think the provinces should play a greater role in supporting the francophonie in these areas?

[Kenneth Deveau]

I'll try to answer the question.

In terms of immigration, the situation in Nova Scotia is quite interesting. Successive governments have made commitments in this area, and there have even been partnerships between the Conseil de développement économique de la Nouvelle-Écosse, the provincial department responsible for immigration, and other players in the immigration field to target francophone immigration development strategies that solve problems rather than create them. That's a good example to see.

The federal government does have an important role to play in certain areas, and we see this in immigration. However, with regard to early childhood services, Nova Scotia is facing some challenges that I'd like to bring to your attention. Funding transfers for early childhood services have not necessarily solved problems for francophones in Nova Scotia. In some cases, it may even be the opposite.

I would encourage you to support us and our province when it comes to early childhood services. This will help safeguard early childhood education services in French in Nova Scotia.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Mr. Desjardins, would you like to add anything?

[Pierre-Marcel Desjardins]

At the provincial level, it often depends on the agenda and the priorities of the government of the day. I don't think we can come to just one conclusion that applies uniformly to all provinces and regions.

I think it's essential that all three levels of government work together and pull in the same direction. We have to make sure that services are offered, but also that everyone does their part. When one level of government sets priorities, but other levels of government have different priorities, we unfortunately might not achieve the desired results in most cases.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Since I only have 20 or 30 seconds left in my time, Mr. Deveau and Mr. Desjardins, I wonder if you could enrich the committee's reflections by sending us your recommendations with regard to rural regions in particular.

Also, do you have any recommendations for the federal government to get Statistics Canada to ask better questions in order to obtain data on francophones? I'm thinking here of rights holders, yes, but of other things as well.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Serré. We'll come back to this at the end of the meeting.

Mr. Beaulieu, you have the floor for one minute. You have time for a good question.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

I'll try to ask my question quickly so that our guests have time to answer it.

We've been talking about the importance of delivering services in French and having workplaces that operate in French. In addition to the provisions that apply outside Quebec, Bill C-13 has also enacted legislation that's supposed to guarantee, or at least support, the delivery of services in French in federally regulated businesses in Quebec.

Don't you think that French should be the predominant language, if not the common language, also within federal institutions located in areas with a higher concentration of francophones?

[Pierre-Marcel Desjardins]

I'm perhaps more familiar with the situation in New Brunswick. In some regions in the northern part of the province, and even in the Moncton area, French is the main language of work in some federal departments. For example, I worked at Fisheries and Oceans Canada's head office in Moncton when I was a student, and I spoke French most of the time. I'm also the chair of UNI Financial Cooperation, which is a credit union that operates in French, since it is subject to the Bank Act.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Desjardins.

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. I allowed you to go over your allotted time of one minute.

Ms. Ashton, now over to you, also for one minute.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Desjardins, we talked about the labour shortage in education and the need for teachers, for example. Do you think it is essential to address the shortage of education workers in order to ensure the economic development of our communities?

[Pierre-Marcel Desjardins]

That is critical.

It's important to understand that solutions often take time to materialize, so we have to act now if we want to solve the problem within a few years. Supporting post-secondary institutions is essential, in my opinion.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

What do you think, Mr. Deveau?

[Kenneth Deveau]

I couldn't agree more. I want to insist on a final point. It's very important that these teachers be trained in Canada, or that they be retrained with the Canadian context in mind.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you to Ms. Ashton and to the witnesses.

I'm sorry, but I have the unfortunate task of having to cut short the discussions, because we absolutely have to adjourn at 5:30 p.m. Some votes in the House caused us a bit of a delay. This is a common occurrence in Parliament. We had to cut 15 minutes from each of the two hours scheduled for the meeting.

To the witnesses, thank you for your testimony. Feel free to send us in writing anything that you would like to add. It will carry as much weight as your verbal testimony. You can send additional information to our clerk, who will forward it to the committee members.

Before we close, I would like to welcome a new permanent member of the committee, Annie Koutrakis, of the Liberal Party.

Thank you for accepting this mandate on a permanent basis.

[Annie Koutrakis, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Thank you very much. I'm glad to be here with you.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

I would also like to thank Mr. Majumdar for filling in for a Conservative colleague.

Thank you, everyone.

The committee is adjourned.