Public Accounts Committee on April 25th, 2007

[John Williams, Conservative, Edmonton—St. Albert, AB]

Mr. Chairman, I appreciate Mr. Wrzesnewskyj's desire, but for him to ask for confirmation of the committee to do this...he does not run the committee. He can ask the committee for these people to come forward.

Terminology is quite important. Words have been used in this committee that are an embarrassment to some of us today. Therefore, I would ask that all members be quite clear. If he wants somebody to come forward, he can ask, but certainly not command, that this committee provide these things.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Let me point out that on Monday, April 30, we have the following individuals scheduled. This is pursuant to a motion made by Mr. Christopherson and passed by the committee: Barbara George, Rosalie Burton, Paul Roy, Mike Frizzell, Fraser Macaulay, and Denise Revine.

If he wants, and if he gets unanimous consent, Mr. Wrzesnewskyj can make a motion to the committee, which other people have done in the past. That's the only method available to him at this point in time.

So Mr. Wrzesnewskyj, the floor is yours.

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Yes. I move that Assistant Commissioner Bruce Rogerson and Chief Superintendent Doug Lang appear before the committee, as witnesses, on April 30, 2007.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Before this goes any further at all, does--

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Mr. Chair, before we vote, may I ask a question of the mover?

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Well, we're not voting. The first issue is whether he has unanimous consent to move the motion.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

I know. I'm asking if I can ask a question of him before you call for that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Go ahead, Mr. Christopherson.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Does it directly tie into what we're doing on Monday?

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Exactly.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

You all know the procedure of the committee.

Does Mr. Wrzesnewskyj have unanimous consent to move the motion to this committee?

Mr. Fitzpatrick.

[Brian Fitzpatrick, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

Are you having a polled vote on it?

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Well, it has to be unanimous.

[Brian Fitzpatrick, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

Okay. Well, silence is acceptance.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Wrzesnewskyj, so that there is clarity, we will ask you to read your motion.

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

An e-mail exchange between Assistant Commissioner Bruce Rogerson and Chief Superintendent Doug Lang was tabled in committee, as a document, stating the following: “...I have an electronic copy of the written order we served on Frizzell at the request of A/Commr Gork and D/Commr George ... it says it all.” And “Barb George called Darrell LaFosse, then me and, then, Dave Gork, surrounding Mike Frizzell's harassing behaviour and he needed to be dealt with swiftly.”

Due to the conflicting testimony provided before this committee, I request that Assistant Commissioner Bruce Rogerson and Chief Superintendent Doug Lang appear before the committee on April 30, 2007.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Thank you very much. As you can tell from the noise in the background, we're under very tight constraints. I will allow three or four one-minute interventions, if people want to intervene.

Mr. Williams.

[John Williams, Conservative, Edmonton—St. Albert, AB]

I'm confused, Mr. Chairman. Therefore, I would ask the mover to recommend that this go to the steering committee to be decided. I'm not opposed to it, but we have other witnesses coming, we have e-mails that he's quoting and we're back to this confusion again. I think the steering committee can do some organization. It can take his concerns into consideration and do it.

The steering committee can meet tomorrow morning if it wants and decide the best order for these witnesses to appear. That sounds okay, but I'm not prepared to analyze who's coming when and who said what and who wrote an e-mail to somebody else. What is the best order?

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Point of order.

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

This committee, on this particular investigation, has used this process to call former ministers before the committee. I consider that a friendly amendment to one of my motions that brought the witnesses who came forward.

The decision to bring the whistle-blowers and the witnesses before this committee was decided by the committee when Mr. Poilievre made what I considered a friendly amendment to bring former ministers. It was decided by this committee, so it's par for the course, and it's important that these individuals have the opportunity to appear for the very clarity that we're trying to find.

[John Williams, Conservative, Edmonton—St. Albert, AB]

I don't disagree. It's a case of getting the proper order. Let's give it a little thought. We have the bells ringing. We're out of here in five minutes. We have to decide.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Mr. Christopherson, for one minute.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

I understand Mr. Williams's concern, but I think to be fair we haven't denied anybody and I think we've tried as much as possible to work as a team in a non-partisan way. Unless somebody is abusing it or not thinking it through and bringing in people who are out of context to what we're going to talk about, it seems to me now is not the time to shift gears. It's for Monday.

I've asked Mr. Wrzesnewskyj whether or not it applied directly to what we're going to do on Monday. He said yes. He's an honourable member, so I'm going to support this.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Mr. Sweet, for one minute.

[David Sweet, Conservative, Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON]

How many witnesses do we have on Monday?