Evidence of meeting #1 for Public Accounts in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was amendment.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:40 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
We'll go to that vote again, the motion with Mr. Kramp's amendment. There's no amendment from Mr. Shipley. We already voted on Mr. Kramp's amendment.
4:40 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
We're voting on the amended motion now.
(Motion as amended agreed to)
4:40 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
There are a few comments I want to make about the committee and the future business of the committee.
First of all, I want to welcome everyone here. I am confident that we will have a productive session and I want to say a few words because I know most of you are new to the committee. Mr. Christopherson, Mr. Kramp, Ms. Ratansi, and I have all served on the committee before.
This committee is fundamentally different from any other committee in the House of Commons, and in my opinion, it's the most important one. It's fundamentally different in that it does not deal with policy, but rather administration. In other words, it does not examine why things are done, but how they're done.
We're concerned with the proper and prudent expenditure of public funds. We are concerned that the expenditures are legal, that they're made in accordance with the Financial Administration Act and all Treasury Board guidelines and procedures, and that the principles of prudence, propriety, and compliance are adhered to.
As I've indicated, the main witnesses to appear before this committee are the Auditor General--and she's usually accompanied by two, three, or four of her officials--and normally the deputy minister or the agency head and his or her officials, as the case may be. I should say it's unusual, and I hope it doesn't occur, but it does occur now and then that this committee will call ministers.
I point out that the Federal Accountability Act, which was passed a couple of years ago, has designated all deputy ministers and agency heads as accounting officers, who are accountable to Parliament for the following management responsibilities: measures taken to organize the resources of the department to deliver departmental programs in compliance with government policies and procedures; the measures taken to maintain effective systems of internal control in their department; the signing of the accounts that are required for the preparation of the public accounts; and the performance of other specific duties assigned to him or her by the Federal Accountability Act or any other act in relation to the administration of the department.
In May 2007, this committee adopted a protocol for the appearance of accounting officers before the public accounts committee. This protocol, which is included in your committee binder, was concurred in by the House of Commons and is therefore part of the parliamentary law of this country, and I urge you and invite you to read it very carefully.
The work of this committee is the final step in the parliamentary accountability cycle, which starts with the budget, continues with the estimates, the departmental reports on plans and priorities, the departmental performance reports, and then finally, the audits: both the public accounts audit, the financial audit, and the various performance audits that the Auditor General does on a regular basis. That is the final step that concludes the government's financial cycle.
So this committee follows the work of the Auditor General very closely, and she will usually be a witness every week or every second week, mostly dealing with the various performance reports.
I should point out that this Thursday morning, February 5, the Auditor General and the Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainability will be providing a briefing to all members of Parliament and senators. It's on Thursday morning at 10 o'clock. Technically, it's not a meeting of the public accounts committee, but it is a meeting similar to this, where the auditor presents her report, as does the commissioner. The auditor has eight chapters; the commissioner has five, and each member who attends is given an allocated amount of time to ask questions. You see critics and other people coming in for this meeting; all members are urged and invited to attend.
Every year we also do a meeting on the Public Accounts of Canada. That is the consolidated summary of all revenues and expenditures of the Government of Canada for the fiscal period ending March 31, 2008. Those documents, which I have in my hand, have been circulated to all members. At that meeting we would have the Comptroller General of Canada, representatives from the Department of Finance, and of course the Auditor General.
I should point out that the report this year is a clean report. There are no qualifications in the auditor's report. To a certain extent it's old news now—that is, for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2008.
Before I go any further in my comments, do I have the consent of the committee to have that meeting on Thursday?
4:45 p.m.
Some hon. members
Agreed.
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
So consented to.
I should point out that normally these things go to the steering committee and then the steering committee comes with a schedule, but I have to jump ahead here and get the committee's concurrence so that proper planning can take place immediately.
For next Tuesday, what I propose is this. Once the auditor tables her report, the practice of the committee has been that at the earliest opportunity we would have a public meeting, usually televised, to deal with all eight chapters. The auditor has recommended that we can have the environmental commissioner also, because there is some overlap there. Most of our attention, of course, will be directed to the reports of the Auditor General and those eight chapters, which I'm going to circulate now in both official languages so that you have the chapters being tabled by the Auditor General on Thursday.
That would take place next Tuesday. I've spoken with the auditor's office, and she's quite prepared. She would be the only witness. At that meeting there would be no representatives from any of the departments, because we're dealing with all eight chapters.
Before going any further, do I have the consent of the committee to have that meeting next Tuesday and have the Auditor General there?
4:45 p.m.
Some hon. members
Agreed.
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
After I adjourn, I would ask that the members of the steering committee remain for a very short meeting just to talk about the future schedule.
Before I conclude, there are a couple of housekeeping points I will remind members of.
Most of the witnesses on this committee are deputy ministers or other very experienced public officials. I urge members to keep their questions concise and to the point. I will be very vigilant in demanding the same from the witnesses. There's nothing worse than having long, rambling preambles and then letting the witness go on. Of course, this seven minutes that we agreed to can be eaten up in one question and one answer. As any person who has practised law will tell you, it's 90% preparation and 10% execution. So again, I'd urge members to keep their questions concise and precise, and I as chair will certainly try to make sure that the witnesses answer succinctly and to the point.
I plan to start on time. Once I have my five other members, the gavel comes down. We start at 3:30, and I'd ask everyone to be here on time. To be fair I will, as best as possible, be adhering strictly to the time limits. I don't cut people off, but I will have a red flag to give you a one-minute warning. I take no joy in that, because a lot of times I see the examiner almost getting to the point and then the time is up, but again, I have to enforce the time limits.
Also I want to remind members that we don't deal with policy issues, such as whether we should have gun control or shouldn't have gun control. Those questions will be ruled out of order. Those issues are really not at all the domain of this committee. Of course, the auditor will not answer any policy questions, so you'd be wasting your time in the first place. I just want to remind you of that.
Having made these comments, colleagues, I think it will be a rewarding committee, and it will be enriching. I think if we all work together as a team, we will have a very productive and effective session.
Thank you very much.
Are there any comments before we adjourn?
The meeting is adjourned.
