Absolutely, it's up to you.
Evidence of meeting #36 for Public Accounts in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was code.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #36 for Public Accounts in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was code.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Daryl Kramp
If you would like to defer it to another time, that would not be a difficulty, as long as I have concurrence from everybody else around the table.
12:30 p.m.
Some hon. members
Agreed.
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
12:30 p.m.
Bloc
Meili Faille Bloc Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC
I have a supplementary question.
Once again, I would like to pursue the same line of thought as Mr. D'Amours, who seems to want to put some important questions on the table. I will not go on about this at length, but according to the questions that I am hearing around the table, we need more specific information about your action plan. The timetables have to be clarified, the steps taken, and decisions made about who will do what and when. We need additional indicators, and a complete report on what you intend to do and how you will do it. How are you going to measure the progress of this project?
I am really quite perplexed. A little earlier, I gave you a few examples that illustrate how complex it can be to really identify a conflict of interest. However, one thing transcends all that. It is that code that has been in existence for a long time. Despite that, I don't have the impression that the system allows us to find out what is really going on.
I don't know whether other members of the committee have had an opportunity to read about the case involving Mr. Tipple and Mr. Rotor this summer, but this was a case of swindling and cover-up. Those are harsh words, even when uttered by judges. I would like the people from Treasury Board to commit themselves to telling us what they intend to do so that we can truly find out what is going on.
Ms. Meredith, I know you have had a long career as a public servant. Sometimes, it is more difficult because one can trace decisions or situations where you were present. You were present when there were decisions made about Royal LePage, Brookfield and the 2009 process. You appeared before our committee and you said certain things. The reality was completely different. There were discussions. Certain statements made by the deputy minister and by you did not match up. They were different.
I would like to know what you are going to do. Are you going to show some leadership? How are you going to broach these issues with different departments? You said earlier that in situations where you were uncertain, you did not make any statements. You are at Treasury Board right now, you have to protect your boss, you have to disclose certain things to your boss. There are situations at Treasury Board; you are aware of the case. There is an investigation. We are talking about a weekend in a chalet, of Caribbean and Alaskan cruises, of a golf tournament, a horseback riding day and dinners in restaurants.
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Daryl Kramp
Madame Faille, I believe you're out of order. We're getting into personal incidents of potential conflict. This would require investigation or testimony. Today we are discussing guidelines; we are not talking about instances of potential conflict.
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Daryl Kramp
I would like you to rephrase your question, if you would, and I would be pleased to move forward.
12:30 p.m.
Bloc
Meili Faille Bloc Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC
I will reword my question.
What are you going to do so we can find out what's really going on?
12:30 p.m.
Chief Human Resources Officer, Treasury Board Secretariat
Is this a question about the relocation contract?
12:30 p.m.
Bloc
Meili Faille Bloc Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC
No. What are you going to do, as head of human resources, to improve the code?
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
12:30 p.m.
Chief Human Resources Officer, Treasury Board Secretariat
As I've outlined, we've got a number of measures in place, including structural measures, as well as engagement of the communities who are implementing the values and ethics code, as well as training to embed the principles. We have an active program, and that's what we're doing to reinforce the values and ethics code that we have had in place since 2003.
12:35 p.m.
Bloc
Meili Faille Bloc Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC
I have no other questions. The fact that she does not want to commit says it all.
12:35 p.m.
Secretary of the Treasury Board of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
With your permission, Mr. Chair, I'd like to add something. With regard to the commitment that we've made, we created and implemented a consultation network that brings together more than 30 or 40 departments and agencies represented around the table. There are regular discussions on these issues, which take place three, four or five times a year. There is a network of values and ethics consultants who meet regularly and discuss practices.
We have advisers within the organization headed by Ms. Meredith who are available to answer specific questions about conflict of interest issues for which departments want an opinion or at least find out sources of possible advice.
So there are networks, mechanisms and activities that are very specific; activities that we initiate and activities to which we respond. There are measures and approaches.
You mustn't forget that it is also up to general administrators to establish policies, measures and mechanisms within an organization as well as appoint key people who can respond and act as advisers to the employees.
12:35 p.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Daryl Kramp
Thank you very much.
We're well past our allocated time now. I would like to call on our witnesses for any closing statement that they might wish to make.
Madam Fraser.
12:35 p.m.
Auditor General of Canada, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'd like to thank the committee for the interest in the work that we did on this issue. I think it is an important one that obviously requires ongoing attention. We are very pleased with the response that we received from government in relation to our recommendations.
12:35 p.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Daryl Kramp
Thank you very much.
Madam Meredith, do you have any closing statement?
12:35 p.m.
Chief Human Resources Officer, Treasury Board Secretariat
I'd just echo the comments that it is an important issue. It's one of the most important issues that I'm dealing with as chief HR officer. I think the recommendations the Auditor General has given are very useful. We fully intend to respond to them as indicated.
12:35 p.m.
Secretary of the Treasury Board of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
Thank you very much.
12:35 p.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Daryl Kramp
Just before we dispense with the witnesses, we might be able to finish this rather quickly, so just bear with the chair for about 30 seconds, if you will. If we end up into an elongated period of time, we'll certainly excuse you very briefly.
I would like to mention to the committee members and bring to their attention information forwarded here by the clerk: that for Thursday, December 2, the witnesses we requested from Public Safety Canada are not available. They're looking at an alternate date.
Second, the two draft reports for Thursday that we requested, chapter 1 of the spring 2010 Auditor General's report, “Aging Information Technology Systems”, and chapter 4 of the spring 2010 Auditor General's report, “Sustaining Development in the Northwest Territories”, will be sent out this afternoon. They will be available for our Thursday meeting.
Is there any discussion on those issues? That is it, then, for committee business for today.
I certainly thank our witnesses for coming here today.
The meeting is adjourned.