Evidence of meeting #46 for Public Accounts in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was institutions.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

John Wiersema  Deputy Auditor General, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
Michael Horgan  Deputy Minister, Department of Finance
Michèle Bourque  President and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Deposit Insurance Corporation
Gary Walker  Assistant Superintendent, Corporate Services Sector, Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions
Diane Lafleur  General Director, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance

5 p.m.

Assistant Superintendent, Corporate Services Sector, Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions

Gary Walker

Because of the degree of specialization within the industry, it's a matter of balance between training and development of existing staff and bringing in new people who have been there, seen it, done it on the outside, and can bring a little more current information.

Some examples of specialties at the forefront today would be credit risk, operational risk, and stochastic modelling, because of the risk assessment models that are being introduced and that we supervise. Those types of individuals are difficult to find.

One of the advantages we have, though, as the regulator, particularly now, is the good reputation OSFI has. These people are talented but scarce, and they see OSFI as a tremendous learning experience.

With respect to training, we have to ensure that the people who have been with OSFI longer keep current. So we bring in specialists. We have internal training from those new hires, who bring more recent experience. In addition, we bring in other specialists from wherever we need to find them.

5 p.m.

Conservative

Earl Dreeshen Conservative Red Deer, AB

You said you increased your staff by 36%. I'm not sure what you were saying exactly. That's since about 2007?

5 p.m.

Assistant Superintendent, Corporate Services Sector, Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions

Gary Walker

Yes, since 2007 we've increased our supervisory staff, our complement, by about 36%.

5 p.m.

Conservative

Earl Dreeshen Conservative Red Deer, AB

Do you see, now that—

5 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Joe Volpe

Thank you, Mr. Dreeshan.

I'll use my discretion, but I don't see others, except for Madame Faille.

Monsieur D'Amours.

5 p.m.

Liberal

Jean-Claude D'Amours Liberal Madawaska—Restigouche, NB

Mr. Horgan, Ms. Lafleur, does the Canadian government advocate tax evasion? The answer is no.

Who supervises the banks?

5 p.m.

General Director, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance

Diane Lafleur

The Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions is responsible for the prudential oversight, the stability and strength of financial institutions. The Financial Consumer Agency of Canada is responsible for consumer protection.

5 p.m.

Liberal

Jean-Claude D'Amours Liberal Madawaska—Restigouche, NB

I was taken aback a little by Mr. Horgan's response earlier. He said that the Canada Revenue Agency was responsible for tax evasion. I don't understand. If an organization is responsible for financial institutions, I have trouble understanding why it doesn't make sure that there are mechanisms in place to prevent tax evasion. We will check with the Canada Revenue Agency, but I have to say that I am extremely surprised that it is up to the Canada Revenue Agency to make sure banks comply with regulations. That seems really strange to me.

I will now go to Ms. Bourque. Earlier, Mr. Walker said, and I quote: “We are responsible for the prudential oversight of about 450 financial institutions in Canada, which includes 78 banks, and nearly 1,400 pension plans.” And Ms. Bourque, you mentioned that 84 institutions are members of the Canada Deposit Insurance Corporation. What about the other institutions? Don't they want to become members?

5 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Deposit Insurance Corporation

Michèle Bourque

To become a CDIC member, the institution has to take deposits. As a result, financial institutions such as insurance companies are not CDIC members. Mr. Walker's organization is responsible for pension plans. Our members are really deposit-taking institutions.

5 p.m.

Liberal

Jean-Claude D'Amours Liberal Madawaska—Restigouche, NB

Are there any deposit-taking institutions that are not members?

5 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Deposit Insurance Corporation

Michèle Bourque

There are the credit unions, for example, and they have deposit insurance at the provincial level.

5:05 p.m.

Liberal

Jean-Claude D'Amours Liberal Madawaska—Restigouche, NB

Any others? At the national level, are there groups that are not members but take deposits?

5:05 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Deposit Insurance Corporation

Michèle Bourque

No. Not if they take retail deposits. If they take retail deposits, they are CDIC members.

5:05 p.m.

Liberal

Jean-Claude D'Amours Liberal Madawaska—Restigouche, NB

It's automatic. It's actually an obligation.

5:05 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Deposit Insurance Corporation

Michèle Bourque

It's an obligation, absolutely.

5:05 p.m.

Liberal

Jean-Claude D'Amours Liberal Madawaska—Restigouche, NB

Okay.

5:05 p.m.

Liberal

Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC

I am trying to figure out the numbers. There are 78 banks in Canada and 84 institutions are CDIC members. Are we right to assume that all banks take deposits?

5:05 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Deposit Insurance Corporation

Michèle Bourque

Not all banks take retail deposits. For example, some banks have branches in Canada that don't take retail deposits.

5:05 p.m.

Liberal

Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC

Where does the difference of six come from?

5:05 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Deposit Insurance Corporation

Michèle Bourque

Between the 84 and...

5:05 p.m.

Liberal

Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC

...the 78.

5:05 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Deposit Insurance Corporation

Michèle Bourque

Banks? Are they banks?

5:05 p.m.

Liberal

Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC

Yes. There are 78...

5:05 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Deposit Insurance Corporation

Michèle Bourque

The 84 institutions also include trust companies.

5:05 p.m.

Liberal

Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC

There are trust companies.