Public Accounts Committee on June 6th, 2013

[Greg Smith]

Yes.

[Gerry Byrne, Liberal, Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL]

What is it?

[Greg Smith]

How much...?

[Gerry Byrne, Liberal, Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL]

What is your forecasting for each fiscal year in disbursements to projects?

[Greg Smith]

Perhaps you can pose your next question. I'll just find my notes on that one.

[Gerry Byrne, Liberal, Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL]

I'm assuming that it's probably not $683 million. Would that be correct?

[Greg Smith]

It's actually significant.

[Gerry Byrne, Liberal, Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL]

Well, then, since my time is limited, I'll let you get that information and I'll move to Mr. Botham.

Assuming that it's not quite $683 million, Mr. Botham, it would be possible to defer disbursements to PPP Canada through the budget implementation act to actually extend the period of time from five years to, say, seven. It would provide a guarantee, a statutory guarantee, that PPP Canada would indeed receive a certain amount of funds with which they could negotiate partnership projects with clients or partners.

Why wasn't that done, given the fact that we are now in a situation where this nation is borrowing money to pay for its annual expenditures? If PPP Canada is not spending the money that it has coming into it, as appropriated for it by Parliament—and I'm assuming Mr. Smith might be able to give me an answer soon that says it's less than the $683 million that it currently has in accounts—why wouldn't we simply allow that money to be used to offset deficit requirements and extend for an additional two years the period of time in which Parliament disburses to PPP Canada?

It seems like that would be the best way to minimize financing costs.

[Richard Botham]

I think it goes back to the initial premise, which is that for PPP Canada to enter into agreements with its provincial, territorial, and municipal partners for projects, it requires cash on hand. If the government were to limit the appropriations, PPP Canada would not be able to make those project commitments.

[Gerry Byrne, Liberal, Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL]

But that's exactly my point. They have the cash on hand. They have a certain amount. If there was a statutory guarantee through the appropriation act that they were going to get the full $1.2 billion.... I'm not quite reading this. Maybe there's a sensitivity or a nuance here that I'm just not getting. They're not entering into something to which they could not contractually adhere to. We could actually defer payments to them, which would eliminate borrowing costs or financing costs, and they could still meet their timelines.

Mr. Smith, if you want to jump in, if you do have that information, but in the meantime, Mr. Botham—

[Greg Smith]

In 2013-14, it will be $14 million—

[Gerry Byrne, Liberal, Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL]

It will be $14 million.

[Greg Smith]

In 2014-15, it will be $55 million; in 2015-16, $40 million; in 2016-17, $80 million; and in 2017-18 and thereafter we have commitments now for $505 million.

[The Chair, NDP, David Christopherson]

I'm sorry, but time has expired.

I must move along to Mr. Shipley.

I know, sir, you offered to truncate yours because of time. I do appreciate it. Thank you. You have the floor.

[Bev Shipley, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Due to the time, I just really will have a question. It's following up a little bit.

When you're taking and you're securing significant amounts of money—and I don't think this one has been touched on, but I'm curious—when you look at where you're going to get it, are there specific credit ratings that you look at, in terms of security, in terms of where you get the money from?

[Greg Smith]

As set out in the Treasury Board policy that we have to adhere to, we're told where we can invest, what the ratings of those institutions are, what the products are that we can invest in, and the timeframes.

[Bev Shipley, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

Have those changed since the initiation of the P3s?

[Greg Smith]

No, those were approved in 2008, at the inception of PPP Canada, and they still exist.

[Bev Shipley, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

Has that ever been an issue in terms of the financing that you secure?

[Greg Smith]

No.

[Bev Shipley, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, NDP, David Christopherson]

Thank you, Bev. I appreciate your cooperation and assistance.

Colleagues, that brings us to the close of this meeting. I have three quick things.

First, thank you to our witnesses, our guests. I will advise you that the committee will reserve the right to determine whether we will have the second half of this meeting or whether the committee feels that one hour was good for this chapter. It won't be Tuesday that you're called back, but beyond that, be on standby. When and if the committee makes its decision, you'll be notified right away. Hopefully, if we do need you back, we can make that happen.

Again, thank you very much for coming today and answering the questions. We appreciate it.

Second, colleagues, right now we have nothing in the work plan for next week. However, we had a report writing day that we lost because of voting. I would suggest, especially given where we are in the cycle and the uncertainty, that we just notionally plan for at least report writing on Tuesday, possibly even Thursday also, if we're still here. During those meetings, we will have the option of making a determination about the continuation or not of this hearing. When the committee wishes, we can be seized of that.

Unless there are any other further matters to come before the committee—I'm seeing none—I want to again thank our guests from Guyana. It's been an honour having you here. We're pleased to have hosted you. I think we had a very productive session earlier, and we look forward to continuing engagement and continuing improvement in our oversight capacities. We wish you a safe journey home.

With that, colleagues, guests, this committee now stands adjourned.