Public Accounts Committee on Feb. 2nd, 2015

[C/Supt Eric Slinn]

Correct.

[Stephen Woodworth, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

That data gathering will then be completed under the performance management framework by 2018.

Is that correct?

[C/Supt Eric Slinn]

That is correct.

[Stephen Woodworth, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

The only other piece I am having a hard time imagining is what benchmarks are possible to measure the performance of a liaison officer. The report mentions performance measures, which I think of as benchmarks.

I don't know how far you can go because I understand it's all in process and under study right now, but could you perhaps give us one or two examples that would make concrete how one might go about assessing the performance of a liaison officer?

[C/Supt Eric Slinn]

Sure.

As you can probably appreciate, to measure the performance is a very difficult thing to do. Potential indicators might be the number of investigations started by the liaison officers that were successfully completed back in Canada. One of the things we're trying to change within the RCMP's liaison program is to take them from being task-driven to being mission-driven. What I envision is that they will look for investigative opportunities in theatre rather than waiting for Canadian law enforcement or RCMP units to send them tasks saying, “go do this and go do that”, or “collect this intelligence and collect that”. That might be a potential indicator: the number of investigations that were begun by the LO and were successfully realized back in Canada.

Another indicator might be the number of intelligence products that moved from an intelligence point to an actual investigation.

[Stephen Woodworth, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Do you think it would be possible to come up with some performance measures around the lapse of time required to conduct any particular investigation, or are they all so variable and dissimilar that it would not be practical?

[C/Supt Eric Slinn]

I think that would be a very difficult thing to do because each investigation comes with its own uniqueness. Some are very laborious and some are very quick, so I think it would be very difficult to do that.

[The Chair, NDP, David Christopherson]

Sorry, Mr. Woodworth, the time has expired.

Colleagues, that does conclude the full rotation as we have it.

If somebody wants to talk about doing something different, now would be the right time to try; otherwise, hold your peace.

Mr. Albas.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC]

Mr. Chair, I've had a chance to briefly consult with most members, with the exception of Mr. Woodworth because he was busy asking questions of our witnesses, to see if any of our members had any further questions. It was unanimous in the fact that they felt very good about the presentation, the straightforwardness of the report, coupled with the straightforwardness and quality of the answers.

But Mr. Giguère has pointed out that he has more questions he would like to ask of these witnesses. If the Liberals also agree, we would be happy to adopt unanimously that Mr. Giguère be given an extra five minutes so that he can ask his questions.

[The Chair, NDP, David Christopherson]

Fair enough, but to be fairer, I would want to look to the third party. Three caucuses are present here.

Mr. Vaughan, may we have your thoughts.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

I have no more questions, but if my colleague has more questions, I have no problem extending his time.

[The Chair, NDP, David Christopherson]

All right, it would seem that without the issue of a motion and going through the whole thing, the government has offered giving you one more. Does that meet your needs, Mr. Giguère?

[Alain Giguère, NDP, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

I find it unfortunate that there is a limit.

My colleague from the Liberal Party would probably have had a lot of questions to ask, especially on the budgetary aspect.

May I remind you that, according to Senator Dagenais, all the budgets that fund the operations related to Bill C-44 will be the existing budgets? The interventions of the representative of the police forces took place before Bill C-44 was introduced. There would be many questions to ask about that, including in terms of justice.

[The Chair, NDP, David Christopherson]

Here's where we are, Mr. Giguère. You've been offered five minutes. Both the other two parties, out of three parties, have agreed to give you that five minutes. My advice to you would be to either take the five minutes or place a motion, which you know for sure you're going to lose.

I leave it up to you, sir. Those are your options.

You might want to grab the five minutes they're giving you.

[Alain Giguère, NDP, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Mr. Chairman, I have only one real possibility, which is to accept the five minutes.

[The Chair, NDP, David Christopherson]

It would seem that way to me.

Therefore, you now have the floor for five minutes, Monsieur Giguère.

[Alain Giguère, NDP, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Since it will not likely be possible to obtain additional funding for certain operations in your service, we have been told that, when some bills were introduced recently, those new activities would be funded by rearranging the budget of all the services.

Will you be able to maintain and improve your performance if your budgets are cut? In other words, will you be able to reduce the red tape within your services and achieve, despite significant budget cuts, the same efficiency, or to even improve your efficiency?

[C/Supt Eric Slinn]

The RCMP acts at the behest of the government. If the government chose to give the RCMP more money, I'm sure we'd be very happy. However, it is important for us organizationally to look at and align our priorities. The commissioner has been clear about that, and that's what we do, whether it be with our liaison officers or with our officers on the street or our officers fighting financial crime. We attack the greatest threat, and we work with the budget we have.

[Alain Giguère, NDP, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

A number of organizations intervene to ensure Canada's security against outside threats. We have the RCMP, the Department of Foreign Affairs and the Canadian Armed Forces, but is there an administrative structure where all those players come together and exchange information?

In fact, I want to know if all possible steps are being taken to make sure that jobs do not overlap and that organizations do not have relevant information that other services do have but do not communicate?

[C/Supt Eric Slinn]

All the agencies you referenced have different mandates, but I can say conclusively that the RCMP works very closely, whether it's with DND, CSIS, or CBSA. We endeavour to reduce redundancy wherever we can, but is there one particular place where that all converges? No, because our mandates are all different.

[Alain Giguère, NDP, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Thank you.

In terms of the Department of Justice, here is what I would like to know.

Under an international agreement, are there legal procedures that would make it possible to have what is known as plea bargaining with a detainee in a Colombian prison, for example, in order to give him the possibility to serve his sentence in Canada and have the sentence reduced if he exposes his criminal partners in Canada?

[Janet Henchey]

That's an interesting question that I don't think I'm equipped to fully answer.

Every country has its own laws, and I am not an expert in the laws of every country. Many countries have no plea bargaining at all for their domestic procedures. I think Colombia might be one of them. Plea bargaining is more or less a North American institution. But regardless, as I understand it, the only way you could serve a sentence in Canada for something you've done in another country is through the exchange of prisoners treaties. If a person is convicted in a foreign country and they're a Canadian citizen, they can apply to serve their sentence in Canada, if there's a relevant treaty in place. That's the only way I'm aware of that somebody serving a sentence in another country could come to Canada.

As for cooperating with law enforcement, that's a matter for my friends at the RCMP to answer. I suspect, like me, they would find it very difficult to answer that question. It would be very fact based.

[Alain Giguère, NDP, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Mr. Chair, I will ask another question that is not really the same kind.

We have seen procedural delays with extraditions and service requests. To us, everything seems to indicate that the system in place is working well, and that the delays are just because of the legislation and established procedures.

Ms. Henchey, does your department plan to review all the laws and procedures related to extraditions to help reduce the delays in those operations?

[The Chair, NDP, David Christopherson]

Answer briefly, please.

[Janet Henchey]

We always consider whether any laws can be improved, so I guess the answer to that is yes, we are always looking at whether it's possible to improve the legislation, but whether or not amendments are made is a matter for the government to decide.