Public Accounts Committee on Feb. 13th, 2023

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you very much, but your speaking time is over.

Mr. Desjarlais, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank the witnesses from DFO and the Department of Public Works and Government Services for being here on this important audit.

I do note that in several of the witnesses' remarks this morning, they mentioned partnerships at all levels, in particular partnerships that involve all levels of government, local and indigenous communities.

Could the auditor elaborate on the role that Inuit communities play in monitoring Arctic waters? The same question will go to DFO, following that.

[Andrew Hayes]

It's our view that they play an essential role in monitoring Arctic waters. As much as the equipment and the satellites are necessary, we are talking about 162,000 kilometres of coastline up there. The Inuit communities play an integral role in surveillance.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

To follow up on that, before we go to the DFO representative, in regard to the actual Inuit people's participation in these programs, did you note in your audit what levels of participation they had? Are they senior ranking officials in any of this? Are they patrol officers? Are they reserve officers? With what kind of status are many of these Inuit folks participating?

[Andrew Hayes]

I'm not sure I can comment on the status. We did talk about an initiative that was developed in collaboration with the Inuit communities that can identify the nature and source of information that the systems should provide.

However, we did note that there were problems with the ongoing funding intended to support that. There is a need to address that problem.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

To the DFO representative, why is there such an underfunding there? Why would you think the auditor notes that your department is underfunding Inuit folks?

[Annette Gibbons]

I'm not sure. I think that we have a number of things under way to try to increase Inuit participation in the on-the-water activities, security activities and safety.

We've been piloting a community-based coastal marine response network, which is really intended to be an information-sharing network for what's happening on the water and what people are seeing.

As I said before, we have been funding an increasing number of Inuit communities to participate in the Coast Guard Auxiliary. That includes the purchase of boats through our community—

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Maybe I'll go back to the auditor.

In your review of it, where were some of the largest financial deficits in support for Inuit communities, which your report notes?

[Andrew Hayes]

We didn't dig into that question. We were focused largely on the methods for collaboration and the equipment that needed to be procured, so I don't have an answer for you of where the deficits might be in terms of Inuit support.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

To the DFO representative, you said you were unsure of where those deficits were.

[Annette Gibbons]

In terms of the report of the Auditor General, I'm speaking to what we have been doing, which is increasing capacity in communities over time.

We're very active. We created this Arctic region for DFO and the Coast Guard, which is continually ramping up the capacity.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

What kind of capacity is that for these Inuit communities?

I've never, for example, met in this committee one indigenous person representing a senior official or senior ministry, in the entirety of Public Accounts. It's questionable that many folks, when they participate in DFO's programming or even other programs of the government, often find themselves staying at a very nominal position within the ranks of our government, within our civil service and of course within DFO.

How many Inuit folk would you say are in senior or executive positions in your department, considering how vast the Arctic is and that they have expertise living there? You'd think maybe even a majority.

[Annette Gibbons]

Certainly in our Arctic region's regional office, we are ramping up employees in that—

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

What's the percentage? Give us that, for Canadians to know.

[Annette Gibbons]

I don't have the percentage for you. I can get you the percentage.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Yes, please, and provide any employment statistics that are important for the demographic understanding of how the north is actually being monitored, and by whom. It's important that the expertise of Inuit folks is actually held to be of importance by the ministry and by your officials.

Inuit people have many stories. When I visit them, they know exactly where many ships have gone missing, for example.

[Annette Gibbons]

Yes, and that is certainly a goal, both in terms of the representation of Inuit among our employees, but also in terms of the community-based programming. We are trying to really tap into that knowledge.

I would also say that our regional director general of the new Arctic region is an Inuit person.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Excellent. That's good.

In terms of the actual supplies, I think it may have been Public Services that mentioned that Inuit folks—maybe not Inuit folks, but people in the north, at the very least—are participating in a purchase program in which their vessels are utilized for search and rescue or the environmental monitoring of certain aspects in the north, instead of sending, say, a large ship.

At what rate are Inuit folks participating in that?

[Annette Gibbons]

This would be through our community boat program. I have the number of boats somewhere. I can get it for you.

I also have the statistic for you that currently 26% of the Coast Guard in the Arctic region have self-identified as indigenous. They are mostly Inuit.

As I said, the RDG and directors in DFO Arctic, as well, are—

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you very much.

That is the time, Mr. Desjarlais, but I know I will get back to you.

Mr. Kram, you have the floor for five minutes, please.

[Michael Kram, Conservative, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all of the witnesses for being here today.

I often find that one of the challenges with a whole-of-government approach is that I'm not too sure to which witness I should be directing my questions. I'll just toss these out, and whoever is best to answer can feel free to chime in.

Page 22 of the report talks about the Nanisivik Naval Facility, which will be operational for only four weeks per year due to its inability to heat its fuel tanks. What will this naval facility be used for during the other 48 weeks of the year?

[Annette Gibbons]

That is a question for DND, not us, unfortunately.

[Michael Kram, Conservative, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Okay.

Can the witnesses from Public Works comment on any plans to allow for the capacity to heat the fuel tanks at this facility, so that it is operational for the entire year?

[Paul Thompson]

Thank you for the question.

Unfortunately, PSPC is not involved in that project either. That's a question to be directed the Department of National Defence.

[Michael Kram, Conservative, Regina—Wascana, SK]

All right.

I have a question about something that was not in the report. Russia has submitted a claim to the United Nations Commission on the Limits of the Continental Shelf about its claim to the Arctic seabed. Canada also has a conflicting claim to the Arctic seabed.

I was wondering if any of the witnesses can comment about how our lack of capacity in the Arctic may affect our claim at the United Nations.