Evidence of meeting #51 for Public Accounts in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was surveillance.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Arun Thangaraj  Deputy Minister, Department of Transport
Bill Matthews  Deputy Minister, Department of National Defence
Chris Forbes  Deputy Minister, Department of the Environment
Andrew Hayes  Deputy Auditor General, Office of the Auditor General
Lisa Setlakwe  Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security, Department of Transport
Steven Waddell  Deputy Commander, Royal Canadian Navy, Department of National Defence
Rob Chambers  Assistant Deputy Minister, Infrastructure and Environment, Department of National Defence
Nicholas Swales  Principal, Office of the Auditor General
Nancy Tremblay  Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Material, Department of National Defence
Ken Macdonald  Executive Director, National Programs and Business Development, Prediction Services Directorate, Meteorological Service of Canada, Department of the Environment

12:45 p.m.

Liberal

Peter Fragiskatos Liberal London North Centre, ON

Go into that, as a matter of fact, if you could, deputy minister or Mr. Waddell, whoever wants to take it. Obviously this is a security concern shared by a number of democracies, so what does the collaboration you point to amount to? Is it a regular engagement? Is it engagement on particular issues, or is it something that's incidental and that comes up only every now and then?

12:45 p.m.

Deputy Minister, Department of National Defence

Bill Matthews

I'll start, and my colleague Rear-Admiral Waddell may wish to add.

There's interaction at numerous levels, regularly, just through relationships and the sharing of information that comes to our attention or to their attention that is relevant. We also talk a lot about innovation. We want to make sure we're collaborating and not duplicating. You will see collaboration among the researchers but also among air forces, navies, etc., to advance the cause there.

Admiral Waddell.

12:45 p.m.

Deputy Commander, Royal Canadian Navy, Department of National Defence

RAdm Steven Waddell

I would just additionally offer that our collaboration with allies, particularly in terms of continental defence, can certainly include periodic staff talks. We could have exchange officers embedded in each others' organizations. There are routine exercises at sea during which we exercise security and sovereignty patrols. There are a number of features that allow us to persistently make sure we're sharing best practices and information.

12:45 p.m.

Liberal

Peter Fragiskatos Liberal London North Centre, ON

For the two minutes I have, I will go back to Transport Canada.

Could you elaborate on the number of partnerships that exist with local communities, in particular indigenous communities, on the question of surveillance? I'd like a specific number if you have that.

12:45 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security, Department of Transport

Lisa Setlakwe

I think the specific number is 17 communities. There are those, and we're continuously trying to build the awareness. I'm not going to say that every month that goes by we have a new partner, but as people become aware of the engagement and the platform and what it offers, we are getting more who want to be part of this platform and this partnership.

It does take a little bit of training. I just happened to see a video recently of one of the key people we're working with, who is located in the north and who is actually an advocate in helping us spread the word.

We're doing everything we can to make people aware of it and to bring them in if there's an interest.

12:45 p.m.

Liberal

Peter Fragiskatos Liberal London North Centre, ON

I was going to ask about a plan to expand that, but it sounds as though you're waiting for it to gather momentum on its own and then see where that leads. Is that fair to say, that there's no actual plan to expand? You say there are 17 communities, for example, but there's no plan to say that in a year we would like to have 25, 30 or...?

12:45 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security, Department of Transport

Lisa Setlakwe

I would have to talk to my team as to whether or not we have specific targets. We may. For us, the target is as many as possible, because it's a win-win kind of platform for those living in those communities and for us in terms of information and data sharing.

12:50 p.m.

Liberal

Peter Fragiskatos Liberal London North Centre, ON

Thank you.

12:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Vice-Chair Liberal Jean Yip

Thank you very much.

We now turn to Madame Vignola for two and a half minutes.

12:50 p.m.

Bloc

Julie Vignola Bloc Beauport—Limoilou, QC

Thank you very much

My question is for you again, Mr. Matthews.

My question is about the aircraft Canada is in the process of procuring over the next few years, particularly with respect to the announcements made with Lockheed Martin and Boeing.

Do these companies guarantee that these aircraft will be able to fly in the Arctic? Are tests being done? The United States has Alaska to do these tests.

12:50 p.m.

Deputy Minister, Department of National Defence

Bill Matthews

Thank you for your question.

With respect to the F‑35, that was indeed a key factor in evaluating and selecting a new fighter jet.

I don't know if you're concerned about Boeing aircraft, but when the Department of National Defence purchases a new aircraft, it must be able to operate in the Arctic.

12:50 p.m.

Bloc

Julie Vignola Bloc Beauport—Limoilou, QC

Thank you.

Mr. Forbes, earlier you were asked about Environment and Climate Change Canada's ability to detect spills. In an ecological disaster situation where ice is a problem and you have no icebreakers, what do you do?

12:50 p.m.

Deputy Minister, Department of the Environment

Chris Forbes

Thank you for your question.

I'll tell you what our department could do about it. Basically, if we detect something through our meteorological service, we're going to get that information out quickly to our colleagues. We're going to make sure that everybody understands the situation as it relates to the ice or the ocean. We're also going to make sure that any immediate forecasts are passed on.

12:50 p.m.

Bloc

Julie Vignola Bloc Beauport—Limoilou, QC

Without icebreakers, then, we could end up with an uncontrolled Exxon Valdez.

12:50 p.m.

Deputy Minister, Department of the Environment

Chris Forbes

That's not what I said; I said that's what Environment Canada could do if something were to happen in the Arctic Ocean.

I believe my colleague would like to add something.

12:50 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security, Department of Transport

Lisa Setlakwe

Yes, we try to mobilize as many of our resources as possible to respond to these types of situations. The operators themselves are also required to have equipment on ships to be able to respond to a situation like this.

We are currently holding consultations on this. So we urge people to participate in the process.

12:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Vice-Chair Liberal Jean Yip

Thank you very much.

We will move on to Mr. Desjarlais for two and a half minutes.

12:50 p.m.

NDP

Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I'd like to now turn my final question—with regard to the Canadian Rangers—to Bill Matthews, the deputy minister of national defence.

My colleagues, particularly the member of Parliament from Nunavut, work largely with members of the Canadian Rangers when dealing with the Canadian Armed Forces. We've heard a great deal of testimony from Inuit Canadian Rangers who don't feel that they have the adequate support they need when it comes to getting reimbursement for their equipment when they participate in military exercises.

Just for preference, for Canadians who may not know, the Canadian Rangers utilize their own equipment—private equipment—and lease, rent or find other accommodations by way of a reimbursement agreement between them and the government for the utilization of that equipment. The wear and tear, in addition to whatever use that equipment undergoes, of course, is something that the individual would have to deal with, especially if there is maintenance required. That reimbursement total, of course, would be different or sometimes not satisfactory, depending on how much more expensive that maintenance could be.

It is incredibly important that the Canadian Rangers are well equipped but also have the tools to ensure that they continue to do the work they need to do. I think it is appropriate that the Canadian Rangers have the option to utilize their own equipment, particularly if it is important to them to be able to utilize that equipment for better results. How is the Department of National Defence understanding those reimbursements? What is the way in which they get to the reimbursement for the utilization of that equipment? Is there any way to ensure that the regular costs that are going up for these Canadian Rangers keep in line with the reimbursement they should be getting?

12:55 p.m.

Deputy Minister, Department of National Defence

Bill Matthews

Thank you to the member for raising this question. I had not actually heard there were specific issues around the program, so I'm happy to take that back and look into it.

I should flag for the committee members, though, that we have 5,200 Canadian Rangers. In terms of the rifles they use, these are rifles provided by the Canadian Armed Forces. If there's a desire to question how the program works and maybe suggest something better, I'm open to observations on that front and I'll take them back.

12:55 p.m.

NDP

Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB

Sure. Thank you very much.

I think the important piece here is that, beyond rifles—I'm talking more specifically about transport vehicles, perhaps a snowmobile—how does one ensure that the reimbursement amounts keep consistent with the cost of maintenance? Is there a process internal—

12:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Vice-Chair Liberal Jean Yip

We'll have to have that answer another time.

Thank you.

12:55 p.m.

NDP

Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB

In writing, please...?

12:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Vice-Chair Liberal Jean Yip

You want it in writing.

12:55 p.m.

NDP

Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB

Yes, please.

12:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Vice-Chair Liberal Jean Yip

Thank you.

We will now move to Mr. McCauley for five minutes.