Evidence of meeting #54 for Public Accounts in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was contracts.
A video is available from Parliament.
6:10 p.m.
President, Pfizer Canada
I was not aware they could review the unredacted contracts here.
6:10 p.m.
Bloc
Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC
Thank you.
Would you like to add anything, Ms. Gauthier?
6:10 p.m.
President, General Manager, Canada, Moderna Inc.
I was not a member of the initial team that negotiated the first contract, which was used as a basis for all the other contracts. I don't know if they were aware.
I was only involved in the contracts that were amended and that added…
6:10 p.m.
Bloc
Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC
In the amended contracts, were you aware that there were parliamentary provisions?
6:10 p.m.
President, General Manager, Canada, Moderna Inc.
Honestly, that was neither the focus of my negotiations, nor something that I had thought about. I am telling you that frankly.
There was so much happening at the time that it wasn't at the top of the priority list.
6:10 p.m.
Bloc
Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC
I understand.
Would you have liked to know about it? Would it have changed your mind about the decision to sign a contract with Canada? Would you have likely sold the vaccines to Canada anyway, even if you had known about this parliamentary provision?
6:10 p.m.
General Manager, Vaccines, Sanofi Canada
It is of course important for us to know what these provisions are and how they might have an impact. Would this have changed our negotiations? Probably not, because we have a confidentiality requirement in the contract and it applies to both Sanofi and the government.
6:10 p.m.
Bloc
6:10 p.m.
President, Pfizer Canada
I can't say whether it would have changed what we did during that time. I think our focus, at that time, was on ensuring we got as much vaccine out to Canadians as quickly as possible and with the highest level of quality.
6:10 p.m.
Bloc
6:10 p.m.
Bloc
Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC
Perhaps in the next round I'll have more time to comment on a very interesting factor that you mentioned, Mr. Baylet, about the reasons for your refusal. I fully understand you.
What companies seek is the ability to invoice the people they want at the prices they want. It's called anti-competitive practices. Of course there are institutions, particularly in the developed countries, but also in the developing countries, to combat anti-competitive practices. That's what's called a competition authority.
The government's role is to be on the side of consumers and citizens.
6:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
Thank you very much.
Mr. Desjarlais, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.
6:15 p.m.
NDP
Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
I want to now turn to an important piece of the work that we do here, which is ensuring that we have regulations for the protection of Canadians in relation to preferred contracts and how people, like the representatives of your company, come into these contracts with Canadians. It's an important piece to understanding how that works here. Part of that is the lobbyist registry.
It's very clear that your companies, through various ways, have been able to get access to the government to ensure your perspectives were heard very quickly. I understand that not all of the companies here, including Moderna, are part of my following statement. It's in relation to the Innovative Medicines Canada lobby. That's a large lobby group here on the Hill. Many of us are aware of their work and have had to meet with them. Oftentimes, they are advocates for commercial interests.
It's obvious that you work closely together, probably far closer than you are with Parliament at this time. Oftentimes, these requests are to increase your profit margins, rather than regarding the public needs of Canada's people, through industry organized by Innovative Medicines Canada.
How many times did Innovative Medicines Canada lobby the federal government during the pandemic? Are any of you aware of how many times?
6:15 p.m.
NDP
Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB
I looked, and you met with dozens of public office holders, including MPs, deputy ministers and the senior staff in ministers' offices, just in the last year.
Why do private companies lobby the federal government? That's a big question I have. Why do you lobby the government? What's your interest?
6:15 p.m.
General Manager, Vaccines, Sanofi Canada
Thank you for your question, Mr. Desjarlais.
Unless I'm mistaken, if you want to speak to members of the government, you have to register as a lobbyist. You have to declare your meetings and identify the people you are meeting. It's a legal obligation, and Sanofi …
6:15 p.m.
General Manager, Vaccines, Sanofi Canada
I believe I answered that question already.
I am on these lists because I meet the...
6:15 p.m.
NDP
Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB
Mrs. Gauthier, do you understand the nature of the question? Why does Moderna lobby?
6:15 p.m.
President, General Manager, Canada, Moderna Inc.
That's a very good question.
I can no longer remember who it was, but someone mentioned that we had learned many lessons from the pandemic. I think it was Ms. Sinclair-Desgagné.
I met with elected representatives so that we could take stock of the lessons learned from the pandemic.
We all suffered in Canada. We absolutely must continue crystalizing the learning from the pandemic. I have been having discussions with them to make sure that, as we move forward, the amazing work that was done by many Canadians and by many government officials and public servants serves as a new way of working into the future. I've been having discussions with them about that.
6:15 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
Thank you very much.
Mr. Desjarlais, you'll have one more round.
Mr. Genuis, you have the floor for five minutes.
6:15 p.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
Ms. Sampson from Pfizer, specifically, can you confirm that your company retained McKinsey? For what period, and is your relationship with McKinsey ongoing?