Evidence of meeting #69 for Public Accounts in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was foundation.
A video is available from Parliament.
5 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Kram Conservative Regina—Wascana, SK
Yes, please. If you could please table them to this committee as well, that would be very helpful.
5 p.m.
Chair of the Board of Directors, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
Okay. Will do.
My understanding is that it's everything we had on the donations back in 2014, 2015, 2016 and 2017, including the agreement, the receipts and all the relevant stuff—all the stuff. Anything that breathed about those donations is in that package—with a lot of repetition, I have to say.
5 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Kram Conservative Regina—Wascana, SK
Okay.
You had indicated that you asked the Auditor General to audit the foundation, but it was also indicated that you have auditors that audit the foundation every year, according to the financial statements on the foundation's website. It's PricewaterhouseCoopers.
What did you suppose the Auditor General would find that PricewaterhouseCoopers missed?
5 p.m.
Chair of the Board of Directors, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
The way auditors work is that they do random tests. That's how all auditors—PwC and everyone in that industry—does it. They can't possibly be expected to go through line by line. The cost of that kind of audit would be horrendous.
Their audit is not as thorough as a targeted.... They do a shotgun, but we wanted a rifle. I wanted a rifle. I wanted it focused on the specifics of the receiving of—to be clear—these two donations and the circumstances around them in 2014, 2015, 2016 and 2017.
I thought she'd do it. I thought we had a high probability that the Auditor General would accept it. We are a recipient of public money, so why wouldn't she? But she has said that we're outside her jurisdiction.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Kram Conservative Regina—Wascana, SK
I only have a bit of time left, Mr. Johnson.
When it comes to the donation from Millennium Golden Eagle and the circumstances around the address in Dorval or China, was any of that information withheld from PricewaterhouseCoopers when they did their audit?
5:05 p.m.
Chair of the Board of Directors, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
To my knowledge, no, absolutely not. There would be no reason to withhold it.
However, it has to be said that it's the purview of management. I think it's very important to know and recall the differences between the roles of directors and management. That's why I wouldn't know about something specific like that. Directors are not involved in the day-to-day operations of the foundation, nor in dealing with the auditors on a case-by-case, file-by-file and line-by-line basis in the financial statements.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Kram Conservative Regina—Wascana, SK
At the ethics committee on May 9, you indicated that the foundation had bylaws, but you don't recall any specific bylaws that deal with foreign influence. You've had a month now to review the foundation's bylaws.
Do you have any policies or bylaws to prevent foreign interference at this time?
5:05 p.m.
Chair of the Board of Directors, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
There's nothing in the bylaws.
We have significantly revised our donations policy. Somewhere back around 2020, we did an in-depth review of our donations policy. It was particularly in the wake of those donations in the news and the stories that were created, without any knowledge whatsoever of the so-called CSIS allegations.
We've resolved that. It covers those restrictions on donations. The examination of donations is strict enough to ensure we're not being unduly influenced by our donors.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Kram Conservative Regina—Wascana, SK
Mr. Johnson, I'm told I only have 30 seconds left.
I wonder whether you could table for the committee the old and new donations policies that the foundation now has.
5:05 p.m.
Chair of the Board of Directors, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
Absolutely.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
5:05 p.m.
Chair of the Board of Directors, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
Mr. Chair, on a point of information, to whom should we send it?
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
Send it to the clerk of this committee, who does great work for us. The clerk keeps us on track and our documents in order.
5:05 p.m.
Chair of the Board of Directors, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
Very good. Okay.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
Thank you for asking so that it does get to us.
Now, turning back to the last question spot, I have Mr. Sidhu for a few minutes.
I understand you might split your time. That is your decision. It's all yours for five minutes.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Maninder Sidhu Liberal Brampton East, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Johnson, for being here with us today.
When I think about Pierre Elliott Trudeau, I think about my parents who came to Canada in the early 1980s. I know what that means to my father and my family. It was an opportunity to come to a country to build a future. That's something my parents will never forget.
5:05 p.m.
Chair of the Board of Directors, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
They must be very proud of you.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Maninder Sidhu Liberal Brampton East, ON
Yes. It's an honour to sit here and represent my community and my family at this table.
What I want to ask is this: What does the Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation name mean to the students who have gone through the scholarship programs? Why does that name have such a significant value?
5:05 p.m.
Chair of the Board of Directors, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
I hope it means something, at least to some of them, that would resonate. A lot of them weren't born when Mr. Trudeau was prime minister.
I think the values he stood for were human rights and dignity. He had a deep interest in foreign and social policy. His interest in the social sciences and humanities was an important part of his legacy. I hope—and I think it's probably the case—that most of our scholars would recognize the importance of his legacy and its influence on the foundation. That's particular, as I said earlier, to the social sciences and humanities.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Maninder Sidhu Liberal Brampton East, ON
Thank you for that. It's very important.
You spoke about the close to 300 scholars who went through this foundation. Where do these scholars end up? Are they across Canada? Are they imparting the Canadian message abroad? What is it?
5:05 p.m.
Chair of the Board of Directors, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
Up to 20% or 25% of our scholars are non-Canadians. Most years, we have a significant non-Canadian element. There are graduates from our program—I think I can safely say—literally around the world. Our community is quite broad. The students are both here in Canada and...internationally.
The contribution.... Again, if you have a cohort of 12, 14 or 15 scholars, and two or three are from outside Canada, the exchanges are so rich. The changing of the lives of a number of our scholars has been invaluable, and it continues to be, I believe.
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
Maninder Sidhu Liberal Brampton East, ON
That's good to see that the Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation.... The name Pierre Elliott Trudeau represents opportunity for not only immigrants but also for scholars here in this country. It really provides that opportunity to grow, to give back and to share Canadian values with those who are like-minded.
I'm going to turn to my colleague to finish off the last minute and a half.
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
Peter Fragiskatos Liberal London North Centre, ON
Thank you very much.
Can I go back, Mr. Johnson, to my previous question in the earlier round? You said that the foundation will continue. You're quite confident in that. That's great, because the foundation has done very good work supporting students.
Let me challenge you on that a bit. We've seen other organizations where issues have become politicized. Their future has been thrown into real question and jeopardy. You are confident, then, that the organization will continue to be able to support students in the way that it has.
5:10 p.m.
Chair of the Board of Directors, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
Very much so, and I have every reason to believe that there continues to be an enthusiastic interest in applying for a Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation scholarship. I think the proof will be in the tasting. I hope that we will be announcing our next cohort in the coming days, and I think that will be evidence of the vibrancy of the foundation and the continued success of its program.
As I was mentioning earlier, we're going to be also doing the value-added programs, the engaged leadership program, ensuring that our scholars continue to have that extra dimension to their scholarship.
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
Peter Fragiskatos Liberal London North Centre, ON
There was an indigenous student you wanted to speak about, but you didn't have enough time.