Public Accounts Committee on Jan. 25th, 2024

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you, Mr. Brock.

Good afternoon, Ms. Sinclair‑Desgagné. You now have the floor.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

Good afternoon, Mr. Chair.

I greet all my colleagues, and wish a happy new year to those I have not spoken with yet.

I will try to be as brief as possible, because many of us were pulled from important start-of-year meetings to attend this one.

I want to remind all my colleagues that protecting whistleblowers is a subject that we at the Bloc Québécois consider very important. In fact, that’s why my colleague for Mirabel is the sponsor of the bill on protecting whistleblowers.

I will now come back to Mr. Genuis’s motion. Let me be very clear: if documents, evidence or other information reveal serious wrongdoing on the part of the government, I urge my colleagues to provide those documents to the Office of the Auditor General. I also thank Mr. Hayes for being here today. It’s important for him to have all the documents in hand to produce his report. Then, it will be important to continue the study on ArriveCAN.

However, I find this meeting to be premature, as is the motion currently on the table. It’s necessary to get the Office of the Auditor General’s take on this and wait for what it has to tell us before resuming our work. My party and I are here to move the file forward and to protect whistleblowers by questioning witnesses and government representatives. However, at this point, taking into account the documents we have and the information provided to us, it would be premature to report anything at all to the House, especially since the Auditor General will table her report in about two weeks. Let’s wait and be diligent. I urge my colleagues to do so.

Our committee is important, and we will make sure the government is accountable for its actions. You can count on me for that. If there was any wrongdoing, we will call attention to it and possibly report it back to the House. This motion could be debated again later if necessary, but at this stage, it is premature.

I therefore ask my colleagues to proceed with the vote. I think everyone has had their say on the matter. Out of respect for Mr. Hayes, we have to vote on Mr. Genuis’s motion. Then, if members still have questions for him, they may ask them, but I think my colleagues asked all their questions.

Let’s be serious, let’s be reasonable and let’s act accordingly.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you, Ms. Sinclair‑Desgagné.

Mr. Genuis, you have the floor.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you, Chair, I'll be very brief. I didn't expect this to take the time that it has. There has been a lot of time spent by people talking about things that aren't actually the motion and people talking about other ideas for protecting whistle-blowers. I think there's a time and a place for that discussion.

We're dealing with a specific instance here. Two senior public servants came before our committee and gave very frank testimony, and almost immediately after that they faced severe professional consequences. I think this is a relatively clear and certainly pressing matter, so at this point I'd like to seek the agreement of the committee to proceed to a vote on this.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Well, I still have Mr. Johns and Ms. Khalid on the speaking list. I suspect they both wish to speak.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I will put the question to the committee: Is there agreement to proceed to a vote, or...?

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

I'm seeing no.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

From where are you seeing no?

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

I hear no, Mr. Genuis.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

On a point of order, I'm saying yes, Mr. Chair. Yes, let's proceed to the vote.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Great—it appears that there's unanimous consent.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Would members like to vote?

[Some hon. members]

Yes.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Yes. Okay.

Madam Clerk, would you do the roll call on Mr. Genuis's motion? I will read it while you're preparing to take the vote.

The motion is that “The committee report to the House its grave concern about apparent reprisals against witnesses following their testimony on the ArriveCAN app.”

We will have a recorded vote.

(Motion negatived: nays 7; yeas 3)

We'll turn back now to the witness.

Thank you for your patience, Mr. Hayes.

Ms. Khalid, the floor is yours for any questioning you have of Mr. Hayes.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

I will take this time to agree with the Bloc and Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné that this is a very premature meeting, as I have said time and again.

At this time, I don't think Mr. Hayes is in a position to answer any of the questions, as the report hasn't been tabled and will not be tabled until February 12.

I look forward to our continuing this study, as we have agreed to in our committee. It is obviously very important to all members. I think that if we can get the timing of it right, it will be very beneficial for us to have the OAG here before us to answer whatever questions all members of this committee may have to ask.

With that, Chair, I will move to adjourn this meeting.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Very good.

It's a dilatory motion. I will ask the clerk for a recorded vote on that, please.

(Motion agreed to: yeas 7; nays 3)

This meeting is adjourned.

I will see you all back here on Tuesday, January 30.